Mentorship

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 50 – Mentorship
Elisa Morgan and Eryn Eddy

Eryn: Sometimes I think that we can look at mentorship and think it involves, like, a certificate, a tee shirt, a plaque of…

Elisa: A coffee mug…

Eryn: …You are my mentor! It has to be this very formal exchange. But to be …um… always a student, we’re always being mentored….

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …Sometimes there are seasons in my life with my friendships where I’m recognizing Oh they… this is an opportunity to be mentored by this friend in an area that I’m struggling with. Like I need to be a student in this area to this friendship.

[Music]

Intro: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.

Elisa: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.

Eryn: And I’m Eryn Eddy. What do you think of when you hear the word “mentor?” Perhaps you imagine wise counsel from a deacon or an elder or maybe sharing advice with a friend over coffee. Mentorship can show up in our lives in all sorts of ways, and the truth is: We’re all being advised and led throughout our lives by many different people. But how do we know who our mentor should be? On this episode of God Hears Her, Elisa and I focus on the definition of mentorship, how to pursue someone worth following, and also some of the red flags you may experience in unhealthy mentoring relationships.

Elisa: This is God Hears Her. So should we start with what mentorship is…

Eryn: Yes.

Elisa: … [laughing] in case somebody doesn’t know, cause that’s a big fancy word.

Eryn: So in the dictionary…

Elisa: Okay.

Eryn: … a mentor is “an experienced and trusted advisor.”

Elisa: Hm. And you know what? I’m remembering my high school Lit class. It’s something to do with Ulysses in The Odyssey. And Mentor was a character who was wise and came forward and brought wisdom. And I think that’s where the term comes from – I think, I think. _______

Elisa: _______ [I think so.]

Eryn: …I should have Googled more in-depth on it. My only experience …truly…um… I feel like in the last three years, three to four years, I’ve had some amazing godly women mentor me

in just life experience. But prior to that, I had a small-group leader in church. So I, you know, I…  it … Was a small-group leader a mentor? You like…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …I guess so, cause they were experienced and advised me, based on that definition. And then I had business mentors. So I was surrounded by a lot of business mentors teaching me how to learn about profit-and-loss statements and leadership …

Elisa: Ooh! Wow!

Eryn: …and leading a team, and, you know, I had mentors like that. But I … I knew I needed somebody to give me advice, but I didn’t know what qualified a mentor…

Elisa: Hm…

Eryn: …other than, to me, was what other people said about them, and their financial success, because that was who I was seeking out. …uh… But I didn’t know about the qualities, their character, how they …uh… listen or don’t listen, how they respond to my opinions, or don’t respond to my opinions. I didn’t really know how to …um… assess who was a good mentor, who was somebody that could speak into my life.

Elisa: So you’re saying you didn’t know exactly what qualities would help you pick a good mentor? Is…is that what you’re saying?

Eryn: Yes. Yes.

Elisa: And so how have you figured that out?

Eryn: Well, having some experience with being mentored poorly…

Elisa: Ugh!

Eryn: …Maybe … and that’s why I’m excited to talk about the red flags and the pitfalls, cause I think it’s easy when you are new to something, …uh… new to an area of your life, new to an area of business, new to an area of work, to be impressionable for somebody to speak in that …um… from the outside s..s..seems to be a strong authority in that space _______ [for real?]

Elisa: Maybe…maybe we start with a really broad understanding that we’re all kind of being mentored all the time, from the time we’re weenie-eenie . . .

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: …up on through life. I mean as…as a child, our parents mentor us, or an older sibling…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …or a grandparent. Or a teacher mentors us, you know, then a coach maybe…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …uh… Sometimes we mentor each other in friendships. Sometimes in marriages. Mentorship goes in work, in terms of the superior and the inferior roles of who’s the boss and who’s the employee. So there’s a…a very natural element of mentorship. Think about even in church, you know, our pastor mentors us – even though we may never have met him or her. You know we receive mentoring there. Or a Bible teacher, or a book we’re reading can pull us along. So maybe …eh… that helps me understand it, you know, that I’m always being mentored …eh… I’m always being taught by somebody who’s just a couple of steps further on in life. In fact, at…at MOPS – Mothers of Preschoolers – there actually were mentor moms. And they didn’t have to be decades beyond a young mom, but far enough, you know, a few steps, that they could go Oh, I remember what it’s like with nursing, or I remember what it’s like to leave your child for the first time, or school selection or etcetera. And they’d come alongside. So that’s what we’re talking about here. Right?

Eryn: Yes. I love that, because sometimes I think that we can look at mentorship and think it involves, like, a certificate, a tee shirt, a plaque of…

Elisa: A coffee mug…

Eryn: …You are my mentor! It has to be this very formal exchange. But to be …um… always a student, we’re always being mentored….

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …Sometimes there are seasons in my life with my friendships where I’m recognizing Oh, like, this is an opportunity to be mentored by this friend that …eh… in an area that I’m struggling with. Like that’s…I need to be a student in this area to this friendship. …um… So I… eh…I love that. That’s exactly what we’re talking about.  

Elisa: Okay. Go ahead.

Eryn: So what has been your experience with being mentored?

Elisa: Yeah, well, in addition to everything I just said…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …all those people kinds of people…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …I’ve received mentorship, definitely, from my husband. There are times when I sit in a role of going I don’t know, and you do! I mean, for instance, Evan’s very skilled in business matters, and I’m more skilled in other things. And when I was in a role of CEO-Land, I didn’t know what I needed to know, and he would mentor me. I…I’ve been mentored in…in how to speak in public…um… by amazing people, one being Dr. Haddon Robinson, who’s now with Jesus, the “father of American preaching.” And I’ve been mentored in friendships. I’ve been mentored from people who were younger than me. I mean you mentor me, Eryn, when you teach me how to use social media, or the colors of my Instagram posts should be in a certain palette, or things like that… [Laughter] … You know so I’ve been mentored in a myriad of ways. And I think you may have just heard there: it’s cross-generational, it can be cross-gendered, it can be cross…um…industry. There’s lots of ways we can be mentored in life. And it can be informal, or it can be formal.

Eryn: Mm. So how do you decide on…if you’re going to have an informal or…or a formal…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …mentorship relationship? Cause I’ve had the… like being a student of life, but then I’ve had very focused one-on-one time that This is our relationship. And that’s been new to me in the last couple of years.

Elisa: Did you initiate that, you know – whether it was you being mentored, or you mentoring another – did you initiate that intentionality?

Eryn: I didn’t. I…

Elisa: You didn’t?

Eryn: …I prayed for it, though…

Elisa: [whispers] Interesting.

Eryn: …I…uh… well, I… One of them I did. One of them I did, and one of them I didn’t. …um… One of…I…I prayed for women of God to be around me since I was 22. And I wanted… I wanted so badly a woman to teach me some things about womanhood that I just didn’t know about. And I felt like I waited for a long time until what I’m experiencing now is so beautiful, and I’m so grateful. I mean I guess I’m grateful because I…I waited for so long.

Elisa: Hm.

Eryn: …uh… It wa…The waiting gave me a grateful heart for what I have now, but I prayed for it. One of them I pursued, and I didn’t think that they would say yes. And I didn’t think that… I thought that they would be too busy. I thought that they …um…had a lot on their plate and… and…uh… Really, I guess I thought that about both of them. But one of the relationships, you, specifically, I feel like it was reciprocated, cause your pursuit and my pursuit was back and forth. And it was reciprocated. It wasn’t just…

Elisa: With each other?

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: In our relationship? Yeah, we’re kind of a… example. It’s a…but it’s an interesting one. We didn’t set out to become mentors to one another, but it’s naturally happened. And the fact that we’re several decades apart in life, you know, has…has …uh… enhanced our relationship. But I think, Eryn, too, one of the things you’re saying is that this is a desire of your heart. And then you really pursued it. …eh… And we are now at the place where we have actualized it. You know we say, “Would you mentor me in this, Eryn?” “Elisa, would you mentor me in this?” And we have this mutual mentorship…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …which I think is the best kind, because nobody’s ever done. If we were done, we’d be dead. You know we have so much to continue learning. An…and so we may have been matched, and it’s…may have surprised us. But I think in a lot of relationships, that’s how mentorship evolves, is that then we formalize it after we realize what’s here. And so you and I talk – gosh – you know, probably every other week for a hunk’a time, and sort through stuff in life, pray for each other, sometimes challenge each other. I have said, “Eryn, would you hold me accountable in something here?” And you’ve said the same thing to me…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …And it’s been…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …really powerful.

Eryn: Yeah. Well, you know, up to that point, I feel like experiencing you, and then the other woman that’s in my life that mentors me, I… you know, going back to when… being a student of life, I think and…and I feel like that prayer of like having like a formal relationship, a formal exchange… Like up to that point, I feel like the Lord was preparing my heart for a mentor. Because I think your heart has to be postured in a way to have a formal like exchange with somebody…

Elisa: That’s good.

Eryn: …um… I think it involves humility, having a receptive spirit. …um… It’s a lot… it’s a… There’s a lot of vulnerability in mentorship. There is a …uh… lot of humility, I think…

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …that takes place in being mentored formally. And I think that’s why I’m excited to discuss some of the…the red flags because it is a very vulnerable, impressionable thing for both people…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …For…for you, to be on the other side of me; and for me to be on the other side of you and learn how to … how to duet, in growing and sharpening each other. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. You know there is a preparation of my heart to be mentored, but then there is a preparation of my heart to mentor others. There’s a preparation for…in your heart to mentor others, wouldn’t you say, and to be mentored? 

Elisa: I think maybe one of the elements you’re talking about is boundaries…

Eryn: Mmm.

Elisa: …You know when we’re in the mentee role – which means we’re receiving the learning, you know, we’re open to, which I love… We need to be humble. We need to be vulnerable. We need to ask God to provide for it, and we may need to ask another person to mentor us, you know. So when we’re in the mentee role, the…the vulnerability there is that we’re exposed. And we’re in the – if you will – underling position. …eh… We’re in the student position. We… we answer to authority, rather than being in authority. And when we put ourselves in that context, we can also become vulnerable to inappropriateness – to too much sharing, to too much caring, to too much …um… holding responsibility, those kinds of things. It’s…similarly, if you’re in the mentor role, the one with authority, we need to be careful that we’re not abusing our authority towards the one who has yielded and is learning. We need to stay in our lane, if you will, and make sure we’re listening carefully to the Holy Spirit and staying within the bounds of Scripture and being honoring of someone else’s rights and needs and emotions.

Eryn: Mm. That’s so good. So how would you identify what is, you know, apew… like what you said, abusive? Cause sometimes I think that we don’t even realize that we are using our authority in an abusive way. Let’s unpack that a little bit. Let’s unpack the…the red flags of it.

Elisa: Yeah, I’m thinking about – and I’m gonna go spiritual here for a second – I’m thinking about when Jesus was in the Upper Room, and He’s talking to the disciples just before He’s going to go to the cross. And He’s giving them all these instructions and all this love, and praying for them, and taking care of them, praying for the world, praying for who we would be in the twenty-first century – you and me as disciples. But one thing He says is that “I’m not going to leave you as orphans. I’m going to send you the Holy Spirit.” And He says it in John chapter 14, verse 26. He talks about the Holy Spirit. He said, “The Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”

Eryn: Mm. 

Elisa: So bing, bing, bing, bing, bing the…the first thing is…is to recognize that – number one – we all are already being mentored by the Holy Spirit. He’s speaking to us. Jesus has given Him to us, and we need to let Him provide the discernment. So that’s the first thing. But then I think the second thing is: don’t let anybody else get in His place. You know mentors …um… are the ones who are supposed to enact who God is in our lives, but they’re not God. They’re not the Holy Spirit. So be incredibly discerning to keep that screen of discernment of the ul…of the Holy Spirit in place between you and your mentor. And ask God: Is this what You’re saying to me? Is…is this true with the principles of Scripture? Is this true with who I am and who I know You’ve called me to be?

Eryn: Mmm. I love that. So I…I walked though…uh… this mentorship program for little over a year. Four…there were fourteen women, so we would meet as…kind of like a small group, once a month. And then we would be also mentored by the leader of…individually. And it was so… it was so beautiful. It was a spiritual-formation mentorship program. And this one was a more formal experience that I pursued. And …um… one thing that I loved – at every meeting at our one-on-ones, is Alicia [sp?] would – which is so confusing. My…

Elisa: Yes, so you’re not just mispronouncing my name. This is another…

Eryn: I have…

Elisa: …woman. [Laughing]

Eryn: …Elisa and Alicia! [Laughing] 

Elisa: That’s pretty cool. Yay God!

Eryn: [laughing] Yay God! I know. …um… So …uh…Alicia would say… She’d pray over before we started, and she’d always ask the Lord, “Mentor us. Guide us.”

Elisa: Mm.

Eryn: And I…I loved that. It taught me, even in just that one thing, how I also wanted to be a leader to the women that I mentor, to ask the Lord in to mentor us as we learn from each other…

Elisa: [whispers] That’s great.

Eryn: …as He guides us together. And I just…I…I took that. And I think there… I’m just so grateful because, Elisa, there’s been things that you’ve taught me in how to mentor so I can then mentor other women. And one of them is you share things with me that are real. Like you don’t perform as if you were…your life is perfect; and you make all the wise, wonderful, holy decisions; and you are not flawed at all. Like …yeah, and…and you don’t overshare, of course – that healthy boundary – but you let me in because you know that in order …um… to… for me to be vulnerable, there’s an exchange there for you to also be vulnerable. And you’ve taught me that.

Elisa: Oh! And, Eryn, thank you for saying that. And, you know, even for it to go anywhere, I think the mentor also has to let the mentee in. You know I…it’s tough when you get to be my age. You know we typically think mentoring is, you know, passing on all my amazing wisdom, you know, to the next generation. Well there’s that, but, you know there’s also … [laughing] … There’s also this yielding to be a continued learner. So if…if I can open and yield to what you can teach me, I’m gonna backwards through the back door teach you how to do that for a lifetime. An…and that makes me think about, again, Jesus in the Upper Room. You know here He is about to go to the cross. You know He is all God and all man. And, you know, He really is King, but in a very surprising, turn-it-all-upside-down moment, He picks up the basin, He picks up the towel, and He washes the feet of His disciples. The Mentor is stooping to serve the mentee here. An…and He does it, an…and John tells us… he tells us – this is so powerful – it’s because Jesus… This is …uh… John 13, verse 3. “Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, that he had come from God and was returning to God; so he got up from the meal and took off his clothes and…and washed their feet.” And there is a confidence that comes in the mentor identity, when we’re connected to God, where we don’t… We know we don’t have anything to lose. We don’t have to just be the truth-sayers and the pontificators and the teachers of all that is right. We have so much to learn by serving the next generation, and the next generation, and the next generation – if we yield and be humbled and be open to that.

Eryn: Mm.

[Music]

Elisa: And when we come back, we’ll talk through some of these red flags that you may want to be aware of in mentoring relationships. We’ll also discuss steps in how to both find a healthy mentor and how to be a mentor. That’s coming up on God Hears Her.

[Music]

Eryn: Want a free booklet that tells you God’s amazing love for us, even when we feel unlovable? For a limited time, sign up for our God Hears Her weekly newsletter, and we’ll send you a free digital e-Booklet called Longing to Love Us. It’s one woman’s story about how God loved her through all the messiness of her life, including broken relationships, teenage rebellion, and attempted suicide. Go to godhearsher.org and sign up today. That’s godhearsher-dot-o.r.g. Now back to the show.

[Music ends]

Eryn: So I’ve had the opportunity to be mentored by some incredible people, and by their example I now know what is a red flag and what is a like greenlight. You know, like, this is healthy exchange for me and for them. But for somebody that hasn’t experienced that, and, you know, in my past I haven’t, so I’ve been burned. So I guess that’s…

Elisa: Can you unpack that, Eryn, a little bit. …eh… I love that you’re obviously thinking about some specific moments. If you’re comfortable, it might help us.

Eryn: I’ve had mentors tell me that they’ve…they’ve heard from God what I should do…

Elisa: Yeah. That’s a big one, isn’t it?

Eryn: …when I haven’t heard from God … [laughing]… what I should do. And it has … When my walk with the Lord was fragile and impressionable to… I kind of just listened and agreed with what they said, even though I didn’t actually agree with what I said. But I thought, I look up to this person, …um… everybody respects this person in the community. So then they might…

Elisa: They must know.

Eryn: …They must know something I do not know. And so, from that experience, I now know that that’s not how the Lord works in a mentorship relationship.

Elisa: Okay, because that can be an abuse of power, in that we’re talking about here. I mean if… if the Lord wants you to know something, what kinds of circumstances or vehicles will He use to inform you, Eryn?

Eryn: Mm.

Elisa: …What kinds of things would He bring about?

Eryn: You know something that my mentor told me … [laughter] … oh, I remember when my first… when my book came out. And …uh… you told me something, and…and she told something, and I’ve just pocketed them. I’ve like held onto them, looked at them many times. And one of them was… she said, “I have sound…” …eh… she’s an author as well as you, and she’s like “I have sound …um… people around me that love the Lord, that I seek …uh… advice from and guidance from. The Lord has never used a random stranger to correct my behavior. He’s used people that are the closest to me, that walk with life with me, that know who I am, that see blind spots in me…”

Elisa: Hm.

Eryn: And that…that to me was really helpful because I think that …yeah, and I…I do think that strangers can be a catalyst to a thought, you know, that we can bring to the Lord…

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Right.

Eryn: …But to go to…back to the abuse of power of somebody speaking that they see something, like that God is telling them this about you, …uh… that abuse of power …uh… I think some of the vehicles that the Lord has used for me is He aligns so gently. It’s gentle, and there’s no …uh… ego or pride in the tone. There’s no self-serving in… like or benefit to that person to share … yeah, to them to share something that they see in me. There is questions to allow me to get to a thought, instead of them telling me what to think.

Elisa: Oooh! That is so rich! Yeah. I think, you know, in these red-flag things, we…we can become kinda desperate that we want to hear from God. You know we want to be noticed, we want to be loved, we want to be valued. And that can lead us into Well, whatever you say must be true. You know, because it seems to meet that need. But, you know, the Lord really wants us dependent on Him for that core, core, core connection and identity. An…and so, like you’re saying, mentors should validate that, and mentors should stoke it and challenge it and poke it a little bit, but not take the place of this core connection to God. That’s…that’s so rich, Eryn. What do you think, you know, as…as we’re all listening to this, you know, in our everyday, I know there’re women listening who go I would love to have anybody like that in my life! How do we find a mentor? Or how do we become a mentor if that’s what we want to do? So many women in… you know they’re in empty-nest years, and they’re thinking What do I do now? kind of thing. On each side, how can we school our friends here to find a mentor or to be a mentor?

Eryn: Okay. I think that it is an opportunity to go on an adventure of … [laughter] …

Elisa: Okay. _______ [I love that.] …

Eryn: …um… So what…what we want to do is we want to be able to like just pick one person out of, you know, the air and be like Will you mentor me? And then you like hold onto their ankles, and you just hope that they stay. Right? [Laughter] … Like that’s like what I used to do…

Elisa: Bob along behind them as they go through life. Yeah, I like that…

Eryn: I used to do that…

Elisa: …visual.

Eryn: …And…uh… instead, like now I see it as an adventure of …uh… you know… I don’t want to say interviewing, but opening up yourself to dialoguing with somebody that you admire their character, their integrity, who they are, how they make choices, by just a rela… like a friendship or a relationship. But then maybe they’re a few years, ten years, twenty years, thirty years older than you, being surrounded by them and letting it evolve, and…and taking note to what you appreciate and desire and what you long for within yourself. Cause I think when we can observe … like when I observe your life, Elisa, or Alicia …um… I can observe the things. And I’m just like That’s so beautiful how God has done this work in you! And I wanna…I wanna learn from that and be around that and just experience it and see it as an adventure of evolving and growing and discovering, instead of having like this long list and agenda. Do you check off all these boxes? And here’s my application form, and… [Laughing]… But just doing… living life together. So…so that is big-picture, thirty-thousand-foot view. But how do you do that? So…

Elisa: I love that. Yeah. So it just… even you can do it from afar, or you can actually ask, you know: “Could I just kinda shadow you? I want to learn from you.”

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: One thing I’m thinking, too, Eryn, is that we can mentored by a lot of people. It doesn’t have to be just one person.

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: For some reason – and I know now why – God put me into …um… a group of women. There about nine of them. They were all ten to twenty to thirty years older than me. During a season of life, for about twenty years, we met together once a month. And I was just always like What am I at this…in this group for? And now some of them are with Jesus and, you know, some of them are still, you know, on the planet. And a couple of them I still have a really good relationship with. But as I look back, I think, You know how precious God was? He knew it would take nine women to mother me because my mom had died ss… when I was so young, in my early, early thirties. And she herself had a lot of needs, and I hadn’t ever really been mothered well. And these women were way beyond needing me to be a certain thing. They just were able to give back. But that was a whole different experience of being mentored that I had to open myself to and pay attention and wake up to. Oh, that’s what this is doing in my life! This is cool!

Eryn: Oh! You just hit on something. Okay, so you hit on that you had nine women and that this …um… When you said, you know, you didn’t experience a…a motherly role growing up. I think that …eh… mentorship can teach us those things on…for…okay. For instance, I have a friend that …uh… she desires so badly for her mom to be a…a certain way, but her mom just can’t be…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …you know she just…

Elisa: It’s who she is.

Eryn: …can’t be.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: But she has mentors in her life …

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …that…s…that…that serve areas that she longs for. And her relationship with her mom flourishes because there is this… There’s not this expectation that her mom should be something…

Elisa: Oh, that’s so freeing…

Eryn: …that her mom is not wired to be. And I think that…

Elisa: So she can be what she has with her mom, instead of trying to push her mom into some mold?

Eryn: Yes, exactly! And I think…

Elisa: [whispering] Wow, that’s good!

Eryn: …that is the ‘nother beau…beautiful part about even having many different types of people that mentor you, because they can serve different areas that you long for. And…

Elisa: Yeah, different seasons. I remember when I first got married. I became dear friends – and still am forty-something years later – with a woman who was about five years older than me and been married about ten years to my zero years. And I watched her like a hawk, but I would do more than that. You know I would hang out with her, and we became intentional friends. But sh… I watched by her modeling like how to clean my house, you know, and how to discipline kids when I would eventually have them, and…and how to…how to be kind to her husband after a bad day, you know. I just watched her and…and absorbed her. Yeah, it…it…it’s not as complicated as we make it. Okay, so say you want to be a mentor to somebody else, but nobody asks you. [Laughter] How do…how do you get to be a mentor? There’s…

Eryn: Well…

Elisa: …not really a place to sign up: I’ll be your mentor! Feels kinda weird, you know?

Eryn: I think that…um… I think that there is beauty in the waiting. Like if you feel like there’s … like if there is not an opportunity right now, that doesn’t mean that you aren’t meant for that space. But I also think that the Lord uses the waiting to prepare your heart for the right person to pour into. And…

Elisa: That’s super cool. So ask Him.

Eryn: Yeah, to ask Him. So…and, yes, exactly! Ask Him. Say Lord, like, this is a longing of mine. You know would You…would You trust me with, you know, one of Your daughters to … to speak into and to learn from? …um… Some…some…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …Something that I experienced on my…on my team… I…I guess I realized that I … I have younger girls on my…on my team with “So Worth Living,” and they are amazing. And they’re powerhouses, and I learn so much from them, in just how they’re structured. And they’re wired completely different than me. And I just … because they were wired differently than me, and I looked up to them, I forgot that I’m in the position to also mentor them, in addition to looking up to them. And I recognized that they long to be mentored by me and to be led by me in ways that I didn’t know that I was gifted or skilled in. And I…I…

Elisa: That’s good.

Eryn: …discredited myself because of my age, or because of a certain social status, or whatever it may be. And it took… It was embarrassing. I just remember having a moment with the Lord where the Lord was like These girls are longing for you to step up into this…

Elisa: Yeah!

Eryn: …You are denying this role…

Elisa: That’s good. You know I…I used to … is I think some of us wait to be invited into that role when we’ve already been invited. You know God has already placed us in these relationships, so it’s reminding me of something that you’ve said earlier. And that is: Share from your life. Share from your goo, as well as the good stuff that’s done, you know; because when we do that, we become attractive, and people learn the principles of what we’ve learned. I think one other thing is…is to do some matching. Say…say to your friends, “I know somebody who would really help you in this area, if you want. If you ever want me to introduce you…” So start modeling that you’re open to connecting people into mentoring relationships. I think that’s good.

Eryn: Oh, so good.

Elisa: Well, there’s so much _______… And one other thing I just want to touch on for a second. You…you said “a daughter,” you know, etcetera. Is it ever okay to do cross-gendered mentoring?

Eryn: Mmm. I do, cause I mean I have been mentored by men that…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …have given me a space at the table when…when rooms for women and leadership weren’t really welcomed. And I was so grateful for that.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …um… But I think that there is this stigma to be mentored by men …um… that that means there’s something inappropriate that could happen. And…and I think… So inst…so instead of…of experiencing the…um… the fruit of what could happen being mentored by a man, we just shut it down completely, because we’re fair…fearful that it could turn bad. What do you think?

Elisa: And vice…vice versa. No, I totally agree, Eryn. Vice versa. You know I have mentored men. I mean I had direct reports who were men in…in my years leading. And…um… you … There’s this very sacred responsibility to mentor. I mean we…you look in Scripture, and you’ll see Timothy being mentored by his grandmother and his mother. John Mark by his mother. I mean on and on. It’s not like you can never do this, because I think we have a lot to learn from the opposite gender…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …Just wisdom in that, in…in having accountability and being careful and keeping our boundaries clear and …um… knowing when to draw lines and etcetera. But …um… there are certain things and…that maybe are best learned in cross gendered as we watch each other and how we function. You know, and look how Carolyn Custis James, in her book The Lost Women of the Bible, talks about how men and women were created in God’s image. And women were created to be strong helpers, but we’re also a part of what she called “a blessed alliance,” where it takes both men and women – male and female – to accomplish God’s kingdom purposes.

Eryn: Mm. Well, Elisa, I just…I just wanna pray real quick. And I just wanna close us in this prayer that the woman that is longing to be mentored, or longing to mentor, I just want to pray over that…that part right now. So I…I’ll close us…uh… “Lord, we just thank You so much that we can come to You with our thoughts and our questions …um… our longings. And, Lord, I pray for the heart that is longing …um… to be mentored, to find somebody to speak truth and guide them in areas of their life that they just need guidance. And…um… maybe it’s…it’s…it’s the woman that feels like they … they didn’t have a mom that they wish they had. I pray that You will align and…and bring…um… a mentor into their life. And I pray for their heart to be a student, and…um… to also be a teacher in knowing that their voice can be used in both of those ways. And I pray, Father, for the woman that has the longing to mentor, …uh… that has a life experience and feels purposeless cause she can’t share it with anybody and wants to just show up in ways that a mentee would just be open and accepting of. I pray, Father, that You will be with the mentee and the mentor. And…um… present opportunities for that heart that is longing …um… to experience the beauty of what You have invented and created. I pray that You will mentor and You will guide them. In Your name we pray, Amen.

[Music]

Elisa: And before we close today’s show, just a quick reminder that the show notes are available in the podcast description. The show notes not only contain the talking points for today’s episode, but you’ll also find a link to connect with Eryn and me on social. And we would love to hear from you and answer any questions you might have or even, honestly, just to pray for you. So check out the show notes on our website, godhearsher.org.

Eryn: The show notes also contain a link to sign up for the God Hears Her newsletter, featuring helpful articles and stories from women just like you and me who are discovering what it means to be seen and heard by God. So sign up today.

Elisa: Thanks for joining us. And don’t forget: God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[Music change]

Eryn: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Daniel Ryan Day and Mary Jo Clark. And today we also want to recognize Will and Ryan for their help in promoting and sharing this episode of the God Hears Her podcast. Thanks, friends!

[ODB theme music]

Elisa: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.