More Than a Label

God Hears Her Podcast 

Episode 185 – More than a Label 

Elisa Morgan, Eryn Adkins & Vivian Mabuni  

[Music] 

Eryn: She’s kind of timid. There’s prob… her palms are probably sweaty… 

Vivian: Oh yeah.  

Eryn: … but she’s desperate, she’s trembling it says… 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: …she’s fearful, but she’s quiet about it. And what I love about this picture is that she comes to Him, unclean, messy, and He calls her daughter when she brings herself… 

Vivian: Yes.  

Eryn: … all of her that has been… 

Elisa: The uncleanness. 

Eryn: … you know, labeled. That she’s unclean, she’s unworthy, she’s kind of disposed, discarded… 

Vivian: Right. 

Eryn: … not considered part of society. 

Elisa: Yeah. 

Eryn: … And she does it quietly… 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: … And I just think God so desperately wants us to just bring all of our self to Him. 

[Music] 

Elisa: You are listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women, where we explore this stunning truth that God hears you. Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through Scripture, story, and conversation at godhearsher.org, God hears her. Seek and she will find.  

Eryn: I have a love/hate for this topic. [laughter] 

Elisa: Uh oh. 

Eryn: Because it’s the thing that I struggle with, and it’s the thing that I love to learn about and explore.  

Elisa: Oh, that’s good. 

Eryn: It’s something that I always wrestle with, I feel like I can know the answer to, and still every day I struggle with, and that’s self-worth. It’s really knowing my value, my worth, my purpose… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: … And I think about the woman that’s listening today, if she’s in the car or if she’s going for a run, there may be a label that she’s carrying with her that may be a label that’s defiling her, not valuing her, and how God truly sees her and loves her. And I think about her because I am her, too. 

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.  

Eryn: We are her, too. 

Vivian: Yeah, that’s so relatable. 

Eryn: We carry labels that we make for ourselves, whether they’re positive or they’re negative. We make them up, and some of them are from what somebody has said and spoken over us… 

Vivian: That’s right.  

Eryn: … but I would love to know, when I say that we carry labels, can y’all remember a time in your life where you carried a label for quite some time, that you recognized you were living your life out of that label, and then what was that label?  

Vivian: I feel like there were times I was considered the strong one. And I see that now as an adult, but this was put on me as a child needing to be responsible. So, we were kind of joking, even off air, like I’m the responsible firstborn, which is true, but that firstborn daughter thing is… is no joke. And to add onto the layer of being an immigrant daughter. There was really a pressure, I think, as my parents were continuing to build the American dream… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … and I was thrown into that, of needing to grow up really quickly… 

Eryn: Yeah.  

Vivian: … and be the strong one. And I think I’ve carried that. And so, I recognize now in my marriage that I don’t want to be the strong one… 

Eryn: Yeah, right. 

Vivian: …I want, you know, it’s like… and if there’s ever a need to be stronger, I kind of resist it because that label wasn’t one that I chose for myself, it was kind of put upon me. 

Eryn: Wow. That’s a good word, Viv. What about you, Elisa? 

Elisa: Well, it’s ironic, sitting at this table, I mean, Viv and I actually are quite similar in the way we’re made up. We’re both threes on the Enneagram, we’re both achievers, we’re both leaders. There’s a lot of similarities, and I’m a middle born, but I ended up acting more like a first born. So, I have some of those same feelings… I… I remember a label that was assigned to me as a little girl was “Sarah Bernhardt.” Now, nobody knows who the heck that is, but she was a silent film actress. And my mom would call me Sarah Bernhardt, really whenever I was being dramatic. Soft message that, you know, maybe your emotions are a little too much kind of thing, you’re being overreactive… 

Eryn: That’s good. 

Elisa: … kind of thing. Eryn… 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: … I love this topic because it’s… you know, and… I’m in my older years, you know… it can, the facets can shift kind of quickly, and we may not even notice… 

Eryn: Yep.  

Elisa: … that the labels have changed. 

Vivian: Wow.  

Eryn: That’s so good, Elisa. Oftentimes, when we don’t resign a label, we live out of that label. 

Vivian: Right, yes. 

Eryn: It becomes part of our identity. And so, it’s so important to acknowledge what label it is that we’re carrying. I would love to just, like, share some labels that we think, maybe, that we’ve seen our friends experience. Like for me, it’d be unlovable would be a label that I would struggle, thinking that I’m not lovable. Because a person chose to not love me means I’m not worthy of love. That would be one.  

Elisa: Monster mom.  

Eryn: Monster Mom, that’s a good one.  

Elisa: Yeah. The… the… the angry mom who just can’t turn off her feelings, and then she feels like that’s all she is, and she’s a failure. Failure is another one.  

Eryn: Yup, failure.  

Vivian: Failure. Helper, but I think helper, I mean, there’s definitely the… the healthy side of helper…. 

Eryn: Sure, yeah. 

Vivian: … like, we want to encourage each other, help each other, that that’s… but there is… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … definitely this label of helper, like, I can always count on so-and-so to… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … pick up the slack or… 

Eryn: That’s so true! 

Vivian: … you know. You know what I mean? Like… 

Elisa: The muffins, the cupcakes, the… yeah. 

Eryn: It’s almost like they’re at… It’s like they’re only seen as that… 

Vivian: Right. 

Eryn: … as somebody that will help but not have a relationship with. 

Vivian: Right. 

Eryn: What’s another label? It looked like you had something on the end of your tongue you were going to say. 

Elisa: I was thinking of baby. You know, you’re just being a baby. 

Eryn: Yeah, baby. 

Elisa: Grow up, baby. Buck up.  

Vivian: Wow.  

Elisa: Yeah. That’s… and that’s another… most of the ones I think of are negative.  

Eryn: I know, I know. I have this whole list here. I got… I got lazy, too much… 

Elisa: Too much. 

Eryn: … too much, it’s like too much, not enough, you know? 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: Damaged goods, perfectionist, imposter, broken, dirty.  

Elisa: And then how about pretty girl?  

Eryn: Pretty girl.  

Elisa: You know, it’s all yours is pretty girl. 

Vivian: Oh, wow. 

Elisa: That’s… For some people that is so wounding, you know? 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Elisa: Oh, she’s the pretty girl. 

Eryn: That’s so true. 

Elisa: Or the skinny girl or the Barbie girl. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: You know that one. And then there’s the opposite of, well, you’re the big mama, you know? 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: Or you’re the… the whiner, or you’re the jock, or we could go on and on here. 

Eryn: Yep, yep, yep. So, but then there’s, like…  

Elisa: …You’re the tomboy… 

Eryn: … circumstantial labels, too. So, what would be some circumstantial… labels that we put upon ourself that are circumstantial. Like, I’m thinking unemployed as a circumstance. 

Elisa: Single. 

Eryn: Single.  

Elisa: Single. 

Eryn: Single parent. 

Vivian: Divorced. 

Elisa: Divorced, widow. 

Eryn: Divorced. Addict… 

Elisa: Addict. 

Eryn: Struggling with depression. 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Elisa: Mentally ill. 

Eryn: Yes. Based off of circumstances, whether it’s ones you can control or ones that you can’t control that were… 

Vivian: Sure. 

Elisa: Disabled. 

Eryn: Disabled. 

Elisa: Older, senior, [bwah noise, laughter] 

Vivian: I think we’re hitting on something there… 

Eryn: I think we are hitting on something… 

Vivian: … Elisa, you need to unpack perhaps? 

Elisa: Uncoordinated. I could keep going. [Laughter] 

Eryn: You’re so funny. So, there’s labels, right? We… and we live… we live them out. And so, I want to… I want to dig in deeper to this with Scripture. So, Vivian, I would love it if you would look up Matthew 9.  

Vivian: Sure. 

Eryn: You have the CSB version, right? 

Vivian: I do. 

Eryn: Matthew 9:20–22.  

Vivian: “Just then, a woman who had suffered from bleeding for twelve years approached from behind and touched the end of his,” that’s Jesus’, “robe for, she said to herself, ‘If I can just touch his robe, I’ll be made well.’ Jesus turned and saw her. ‘Have courage, daughter,’ he said. ‘Your faith has saved you.’ And the woman was made well from that moment.”  

Eryn: I love that story… 

Elisa: Me too.  

Eryn: What I love, when He says for her to have courage. I think sometimes words, they can have a lot of weight in our life, like, we’re talking about labels, but then they also, we can forget how strong they can be, and courage, when I looked up the definition, cause I was like, I know what courage is. I want to read what the definition… what’s the words to the word?  

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: And it said, “Ability to conquer fear and despair.” And when I think about the woman, when He says to her, “Have courage, daughter,” He says have the ability to conquer fear and despair. And He calls her daughter. 

Vivian: Yes.  

Elisa: Yes. That’s powerful. 

Vivian: Yes. 

Elisa: Because in that day, she’s an unclean woman… 

Eryn: Yes. 

Elisa: … she’s probably not married, or her husband is gone, left her. We don’t see any children with her…  

Vivian: Right. 

Elisa: She doesn’t belong to anybody… 

Eryn: Right, right. 

Elisa: She’s unclean. Nobody’s touched her in twelve years or they would become unclean… 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: … And so, for Jesus to identify her as belonging to Him… Oh, my soul, my soul.  

Vivian: I love that He does so publicly, so that she’s restored… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: …so that everybody knows that she’s healed and clean. Cause sometimes Jesus heals, kind of, on the side… 

Eryn: Yeah.  

Elisa: Yeah. Quietly.  

Eryn: That’s true. 

Vivian: …and in this situation, it’s like He wanted to restore her to community again… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … in that’s really powerful as well. And it’s sandwiched in, this is a story that’s also found in some of the other gospels as well, and it gets… 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. 

Vivian: … expanded in some other versions. But I… what I love is that, you know, Jesus is on His way to heal another… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … twelve-year-old girl, and this woman has been bleeding for twelve years, and the significance of twelve, you know, in the New Testament and throughout the Bible… 

Eryn: Wait, share that though, cause someone may not know the significance of twelve. 

Vivian: Yeah. So, there’s just numbers that are significant… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … in the Bible: seven, seventy… forty, twelve, three for the Trinity… 

Elisa: And why, and why, and why, and why? 

Vivian: … And so, twelve, the… twelve tribes of Israel, like, there are certain numbers that… were very meaningful to the Jewish culture. Forty days in the wilderness, forty years wandering around the wilderness, forty… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … you know, so there were significant numbers and that this woman, for twelve years… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … had been bleeding. And it says in other descriptions of the story that she had spent all of her money… 

Eryn: Yes. 

Vivian: … on doctors to try to get healed from this, and she had exhausted all of her resources… 

Eryn: Yes. 

Vivian: … which is seriously a very desperate situation. 

Eryn: Right. So, in Mark, would you, Elisa, read Mark 5 25… 

Elisa: Sure, sure. 

Eryn: … to your point, Viv. 

Elisa: “And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal. Under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, ‘If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.’ And immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering. And at once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, ‘Who touched my clothes?’ ‘You see the people crowding against you,’ his disciples answered, ‘and yet you can ask, “who touched me?”’ But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. And then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. And he said to her, ‘Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.’”  

Eryn: I think about what has led her to that moment. For twelve years, you shared, she was unclean and anybody that would touch her would be also made unclean. That’s discussed in Leviticus? I’m asking you, or you, Viv, I’m pointing. Elisa or Vivian, I want to know more about that. About why, like, when I was reading Leviticus, I was learning like, oh wow, like, you have to sacrifice pigeons, and there’s, like, this whole. Like, ritual and… and then I’m reading, like, the different interpretations, CSB and MSG, and I’m, like, I’m reading the different ways that they talk about her story. And I… it’s, like, physicians treated her badly. Left her worse than they found her. She’s spending all of her money to be seen, and known, and loved, for, like, trying… she’s trying to gain any bit of her humanity back… 

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.  

Eryn: … and she can’t fix it…. 

Vivian: No.  

Eryn: … and she’s at her end. So, in Leviticus 15, I mean, it really breaks down what uncleanliness looks like.  

Vivian: And where… even just why she could not enter… 

Eryn: Right. 

Vivian: … the temple or was considered unclean.  

Elisa: Yeah. Elisa… 

Elisa: Cause there was this whole understanding that… when you would have discharges, it would mean that you’re not quite whole, and you had to be restored to wholeness ceremonially in order to come back into community, so that the community would be whole. And there were all kinds of things in Leviticus, all kinds of rights, and rules, and things you had to do to be ceremonially clean, which meant clean to be in God’s presence because oh, blah, blah, blah, the priest was necessary. It’s very complicated, but the… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … intent of it isn’t. And I hope the way I’m expressing it helps you… 

Eryn: Yeah, you’re doing… yeah. 

Elisa: … hear the simplicity and sincerity… 

Eryn: Yup. 

Elisa: … of it. So, you know, as you enter into the New Testament, as Jesus is coming, you know, He says in Matthew 4 that he came to fulfill the law… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … not to abolish it. So that love language of God, that this is how you’re close to Me is still important, but we don’t have to keep every jot and tittle Jesus does. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: So… what you’re going to see throughout the Gospels is the realignment of some of the specific laws to fall underneath God’s love for us expressed in Jesus. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: Okay? So, what would happen physically from Leviticus, et cetera, is that if you had leprosy, you would be unclean, or if you had touched a dead animal you would be unclean, or if you were in your period… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … you would be unclean. So, here’s a woman who’s bleeding. They don’t really know why. They’re not going have an ultrasound or decide she has ovarian cancer. You know, we don’t know. Maybe she needed a hysterectomy, maybe she had a fistula, which is a… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … horrible thing that happens when your body is… is… suffers from childbirth. But regardless, her condition… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … made her unclean. And if you’re unclean, you’re pushed out of society… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Elisa: … and nobody can be around you, whether it’s family or friends or whatever. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: So, being unclean, going to doctors, asking for them to heal her, in desperation, going… spending all your money to fix me… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … so I can have a life…  

Eryn: Yeah.  

Elisa: … she truly is so lost.  

Vivian: And to be part of community… 

Eryn: Yeah. Right. 

Elisa: Yes. 

Vivian: … because that’s where she’s just isolated… 

Eryn: That’s a good point. 

Vivian: … She cannot worship, she cannot go to the temple… 

Eryn: Right. 

Vivian: … It is really just a space of total isolation. I think that we are hardwired to be in relationship with one another… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … and when we become isolated, we can spiral out… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … really quickly, even in the here and now. I think of how many teenagers or non-teenagers, just women in… 

Eryn: Yup. 

Vivian: … general, can get lost just scrolling through social media, completely isolated from real people in real life… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: …and this again, is this picture of loneliness, and isolation, and the need for community, and the need for restoration, and how beautifully Jesus does that. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: And she takes a mondo risk here. 

Eryn: Yes. 

Elisa: I mean, it’s kind of rebellious. It’s very avant-garde. It’s very risky by touching Jesus, because in touching Jesus, she makes Him unclean. 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: What? And instead of turning around and going, woman, spewing [spitting noise]… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … how dare you touch Me, and you make… 

Vivian: Right. 

Elisa: … Me unclean… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … He’s like, “Daughter,” that’s His first word to her, “Daughter…” 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: Oh, precious, precious.  

Eryn: Well, and she comes to Him. She’s not screaming for attention when she comes to Him… 

Elisa: Yeah, she sneaks up. 

Eryn: She… she sneaks… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: You know, she’s… she’s kind of timid. There’s prob… her palms are probably sweaty… 

Vivian: Oh yeah.  

Eryn: … but she’s desperate, she’s trembling it says… 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: …she’s fearful, but she’s quiet about it. And what I love about this picture is that she comes to Him, unclean, messy, and He calls her daughter when she brings herself… 

Vivian: Yes.  

Eryn: … all of her that has been… 

Elisa: The uncleanness. 

Eryn: … you know, labeled. That she’s unclean, she’s unworthy, she’s kind of disposed, discarded… 

Vivian: Right. 

Eryn: … not considered part of society. 

Elisa: Yeah. 

Eryn: … And she does it quietly… 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: … And I just think God so desperately wants us to just bring all of our self to Him. Any label that we’re carrying, any… any circumstance that we’re carrying that we feel shame about, that we feel heartbreak about, that we… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: … that we quietly are suffering with… 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: … because I think a lot of us put on a façade. I do, where I can walk in and people can think that I’m great, and inside I am wrestling with purposelessness. You know? 

Elisa: It’s sad… sad that we go to church like that. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: Yes, yes. 

Elisa: … You know, we dress up the outside, and blah, blah, blah, into the church and sit down as if nothing’s wrong, go home and start crying again… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: Right. 

Elisa: … It’s just so sadness. 

Eryn: But community, what you said, I mean, it’s so important because community reflects back what… who we really are… 

Vivian: Yeah, yeah. 

Eryn: … you know, and how God sees us. I think it can be so healing for us. So, Viv, I would love for you to look up Romans 8:38… 

Vivian: Yes.  

Eryn: … and 39. 

Vivian: “For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” 

Eryn: “Nothing can separate us from the love of God.” You are loved. This is what the Scripture says: you are loved, in this verse. Elisa, look up 1 Peter 2:9.  

Elisa: “But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession,” some translations say treasure, “that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.” 

Vivian: I love that. 

Eryn: You are chosen. I just love how it says, “The one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.” I think about her… 

Elisa: Yup. 

Eryn: … the woman… 

Elisa: In the shadows, yeah. 

Eryn: … she was… she was in the shadows… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: … and she was called to light and called daughter. 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: Viv, I would love for you to read Ephesians 1:7. 

Vivian: “In him,” in Jesus, “we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to riches of his grace that he richly poured out on us with all wisdom and understanding.”  

Eryn: So, what word sticks out to you, Vivian, in that? 

Vivian: I think of the forgiveness of our sin… 

Eryn: Yeah, yup. 

Vivian: …is huge. And that’s according to the riches of his grace. I mean, the entire first chapter of Ephesians is full of so much beautiful, rich imagery. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: Paul just lays it on so thick and it’s, all of it is so powerful. It’s been richly poured out on us with all wisdom and understanding, those riches of His grace. We have the forgiveness of sin. 

Elisa: Whoof. 

Eryn: Yeah. Forgiven. 

Elisa: So, you are forgiven. 

Eryn: You are forgiven. And Elisa, read 2 Corinthians 5:17.  

Elisa: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” So, you’re new. 

Eryn: You’re new.  

Elisa: Love that. 

Eryn: You’re made new. Vivian, Colossians 2:10. 

Vivian: “For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ, and you have been filled by him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.  

Elisa: Filled? Is that… 

Vivian: Whole. 

Elisa: Whole. Okay, good. 

Eryn: You are whole. 

Elisa: Loved, chosen, forgiven, new, whole. They’re nice labels.  

Eryn: I like those labels. 

Vivian: I like them a lot more. And they are true. And they don’t change.  

Eryn: They don’t change. So, it says in 1 Peter 5:10, “The God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little while.” And the word that I see is restored. 

Elisa: Yep. 

Eryn: So, you are loved, you are chosen, you are forgiven, you are made new. You are whole. You are restored.  

Elisa: It’s important that you included that part of the verse that says, “after you have suffered a little while…”  

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … we think, well wait a minute. We got something wrong…  

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: … because it’s not all roses and unicorns… 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: … and the reality is there is still suffering in this new creation, in this loved one, in this chosen one, and forgiven one, in this whole one… 

Eryn: That’s right. 

Elisa: … There… there is still suffering. And that’s when we have to remember, loved, chosen, forgiven, new, whole, restored. 

Eryn: Right. And can you imagine if we started living our lives through those lens, or even just through the lens of daughter. I struggle living my life through the lens that I am a daughter, that I am loved, chosen, forgiven, made new, whole, but I… I just think about the type of friend that I am when I do live from that space. 

Vivian: Yeah, yeah. 

Eryn: The type of stepmom that I am when I live from that space. The type of person that I am when I start to really embrace who Jesus is in my life and how He has called me daughter. 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Eryn: Called me out from darkness into His light. 

Vivian: You know, it’s interesting, cause my husband and I did twenty-eight years of college ministry, campus ministry… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … and in those twenty-eight years, I’ve had conversations with hundreds, maybe even thousands, of college women, and in that time, really, I could probably count on one hand, maybe two hands, women who’ve grown up with a really great relationship with their dads. And the way that they navigate through life, like, failure kind of rolls off of them differently. 

Elisa: I know what you’re saying. 

Vivian: You know what I’m saying? Like, there are some that just come from such a place of security… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … because they were loved so well. 

Eryn: Yeah.  

Vivian: That they didn’t question, even if they failed, that they weren’t loved, or cherished, or all of those things, and that’s what an earthly dad who’s imperfect can do. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: But that much more our a heavenly Father can bring about healing in our deepest places. But to be daughter, loved well, really brings about this ability to fail and not have that completely derail us… 

Eryn: Right? 

Elisa: Or define us. 

Vivian: … or define us, right? 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: And… and just… and the courage to get back up… 

Eryn: Yes. 

Vivian: … and to keep trying and to not give up. That comes from a place of being… 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Vivian: … so worth loving. As someone I know who has such a great ministry there… [laughter] 

Eryn: I like that. 

Elisa: I’ve got this… 

Vivian: I slipped that right in there, Eryn. 

Elisa: You did… 

Eryn: That’s good. 

Elisa: … I’ve got this image going in my head… as you’re talking and… and it’s, you know, when you go into a party, or maybe it’s a business meeting, it’s probably a business meeting, and you get those little name tags you stick is this, “Hello I’m,” you know, and we would, as we started this conversation, we would say, I’m dramatic… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … I’m a survivor, I’m a loyal soldier, I’m a fake, I’m depressed, I’m an addict, I’m a, et cetera. That’s what we would write… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … but if God was going to hand us a name tag, He would say, “Hello, I’m Daughter.” 

Eryn: Yes. 

Elisa: “Hello, I’m chosen,” “Hello, I’m loved.” “I’m new.” 

Eryn: Yes.  

Vivian: That’s powerful. 

Eryn: With that, I feel like someone may be pushing back that thinks that’s selfish… 

Elisa: Yeah, right. 

Eryn: … That if you say that you… like, as if you’re being arrogant, or proud… 

Elisa: Proud, or, yeah. 

Eryn: … what would you say to that person that is going, it’s kind of arrogant to think that you’re the bee’s knees, you know, and so special. Right? What would you say?  

Vivian: Well, if I was actually having a real conversation… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … I would probably want find out why… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … that hit in that way, cause there’s usually a story behind that… 

Elisa: That’s good. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … because people who are secure… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … who meet another secure person, it doesn’t bug them. You know, it’s like, that’s great, but there’s usually something else that’s going on… 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. That’s so true. 

Vivian: … to even bring about that kind of a judgment… 

Elisa: But Viv, I would probably cave and go, oh, you’re right. [laughter] I am proud and arrogant and I shouldn’t use those language about myself.  

Vivian: … but I… I actually wonder if it’s a reverse thing… 

Elisa: Yes. 

Vivian: … that when we are secure like that, then life doesn’t have to be about… all about us. 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. 

Vivian: … so, we can actually, very graciously, sit toward the back, and not have to be honored, and not have to be noticed, and not have… 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. Right. 

Vivian: … to be the bee’s knees, per se. It’s like, I’m just securely loved… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … which helps me to elevate other people and bring whatever ability to, kind of, just increase their visibility… 

Eryn: Yes. Oh, that’s good, yeah. 

Vivian: … than my own. You know what I mean? It just comes from a place of security because I know that I’m loved. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: I know that He knows my name, that I’m a daughter. 

Eryn: And it doesn’t matter if nobody else knows it. 

Vivian: Yes.  

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: Well, and I think we need to pause, dealing with my insecurity over here… and go, this is what God says about us.  

Eryn: Yeah.  

Elisa: You know, it’s… to not absorb it, and you to… to… to reject that label of honor is to reject what He says… 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: …So, how’s that good… 

Eryn: That’s… 

Elisa: … you know? That’s going to work.  

Eryn: That’s convicting. 

Elisa: It is.  

Vivian: Yeah.  

Eryn: But there’s also so much comfort in that. I appreciate somebody going, but that’s what God says.  

Elisa: I hear you, yeah. I mean, it’d be like if you told your daughter, your stepdaughter, you are adorable. And they go, no.  

Eryn: Yup. 

Elisa: And you go, well, that’s just polite, to, you know, push that away… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … But when you really mean it and define them, you are mine… 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Elisa: … You are my daughter. You are my stepdaughter. I love you. If they went, ugh, you’d be, like, so wounded… 

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. 

Elisa: … and so confused… 

Eryn: Right. 

Elisa: … and so frustrated, maybe, to… to… have them own what you know is true about them… 

Eryn: And continue to reject what is true about them. 

Elisa: … and we’ve seen it happen. I mean, a lot of us go through those stages as, maybe as teenagers or whatever, we just reject what’s spoken over us by our parents, by those who love us, and it really doesn’t serve us very well, does it?  

Eryn: No, it doesn’t. But we, again, we live out… out of… out of that label of whatever we… that may even make us feel safer because it’s… it’s scary to receive, I think. It’s scary to receive… 

Elisa: Yeah. 

Eryn: … true, authentic love. 

Vivian: It’s almost like you have to rebuild those neuropathways… 

Elisa: Yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Vivian: … to understand, like, this is what’s true of me. 

Elisa: Yeah. That’s a… that’s so good, Viv. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: And we have the ability… it’s… what’s so fascinating is now with… 

Elisa: Yeah. 

Eryn: Yeah, so good. 

Vivian: … you know, neurobiology and all that stuff, that we can actually see that… new neuropathways can be formed… 

Eryn: Yeah.  

Vivian: … but we fall so quickly into our old habits where, like, the gutter marks are that are… 

Elisa: Oh, yeah. The ruts and the ridges. 

Vivian: … you know, the old… 

Eryn: Yes. 

Vivian: … yeah… 

Eryn: The old pathways, yeah. 

Vivian: …the old thinking and pathways. So, it really does require a lot of renewing our minds, which is why it’s so critical that we… 

Eryn: Yeah, yup. Yes. 

Vivian: … engage in the Bible on a regular basis, individually and in community, in order to form the right pathways of what’s true, and what’s pure, and honorable, and lovely, and of good repute. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … Of anything… like, that, let our minds dwell on those things according to Philippians.  

Eryn: That’s right. And so maybe… if it’s that we’re carrying the label that we’re too much… we’re overwhelming, we’re overly sensitive. We’re the single parent, we’re the unemployed, the chronic illness, [music] the imposter, the perfectionist, the damaged goods, the whatever the… the word is that maybe has been taking just too much of our brain space, may we just lay them down. And we just… we pick up those words, that we’re chosen, we’re loved, we’re forgiven, we’re daughter. It doesn’t change the suffering, and it doesn’t change the past, but it is an identity to live out of… 

Vivian: Yes. 

Eryn: … when we struggle with believing that we’re worthy of love, that God has already said, you are daughter. 

[Music] 

Vivian: What an incredible takeaway for all of us. We are daughters of the one true King. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to leave us a comment or review wherever you listen to your podcast. We would love to hear from you.  

Elisa: Before we go, be sure to check out our show notes for links to our God Hears Her devotionals, as well as a link to Eryn’s website, So Worth Loving. You can find that and more at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.  

Eryn: Thank you for joining us and don’t forget God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. 

[Music] 

Vivian: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. We also want to thank Rebecca and Mia for all their help and support. Thanks everyone. 

Elisa: Our Daily Bread Ministries is a donor supported nonprofit ministry dedicated to making the life changing wisdom and stories of the Bible come alive for all people around the world. God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.