Ep. 159: A Deeper Look at Rahab
God Hears Her Podcast
Episode 159 – A Deeper look at Rahab with Shadia Hrichi
Eryn Adkins and Elisa Morgan
Shadia: On the edge of this conquest story, just think of the drama. You almost want to hear the drums playing in the background, you know, like getting louder and louder. Like they’re on the edge of the Promised Land. They’re ready to go in. God’s going to give them this land. And God puts the whole thing on hold to tell us all about Rahab.
[Theme music]
Intro: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.
Elisa: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.
Eryn: And I’m Eryn Adkins. So many women in the Bible are often overlooked for their acts of bravery and faith. And today we’re talking with prominent Bible teacher and author, Shadia Hrichi, about a woman in the Bible who is often overlooked — Rahab.
Elisa: Before we dive in, we want to give a brief summary of the story of Rahab. Okay, she was a prostitute who lived in the city of Jericho. And the Israelite people were camped out in the wilderness waiting to get into the Promised Land, a/k/a Jericho. Joshua sent two spies to scope out the city during a time of war. While they were there, Rahab hid them in her home to protect them from the king.
Eryn: Rahab was a courageous woman who made a bold decision, all while she was still processing what she had learned about God and how He protected the Israelites. Shadia recently released a study on Rahab, but today we want to learn more about how Shadia connects to Rahab and the other women in the Bible.
Elisa: Also, just an FYI, we had this conversation while I was kind of getting over a sickness, so my voice is a little bit off. But anyway, let’s start this conversation by getting to know Shadia and the threads of her life on God Hears Her.
Shadia: I grew up in a nonbelieving home ...uh... in the sense of we never talked about God. I never knew where my parents stood with God. It was sort of like a nonissue. And, curiously, my parents were raised in various faiths. So my mother was raised a Lutheran, and my father was raised moderate Muslim. He’s actually from Morocco. My mother’s from Latvia. I’m actually first-generation American, so both my parents immigrated here to the States. They met in New York City, the melting pot of the world. ... [laughter]...
Elisa: That’s true!
Shadia: We moved to lots of places. We lived in Las Vegas. We lived in Morocco. We lived in New York City. But eventually my parents divorced. We moved to upstate New York where my mother met my stepfather, who was raised Jewish!
[Laughter]
Elisa: Very eclectic! Yeah.
Shadia: Yes, yes, yes...
Elisa: There’s that texture again. Yeah.
Eryn: Yep.
Shadia: Exactly! I eventually met and married a dysfunctional alcoholic who was Catholic. But when I moved to California, where I’m living now, at the age of 30, I was . . . I was married at the time. We moved together. We were invited to a Bible study, and to my complete. . . Actually, my husband was invited to a Bible study, and to my complete shock because we met in a bar, you know, so it’s like You want to go to a Bible study? I mean it just. . . it just floored me!
Eryn: Fully outside of your norm. Yeah.
Shadia: Absolutely! Completely outside of the norm! And so we go to this Bible study, and it was the first time that I can say that I have met people that had a genuine faith. I had never seen this before, and it was very intriguing to me. I’m thinking in my mind, like, these people really believe this. It’s not like something they grew up in or, you know, that was just a, you know, cultural thing or whatever. Their faith was genuine, and I’m like Okay, well, we both can’t be right. I’m a very kind of a logic, analytical type thinker, you know, black and white. You know we both can’t be right. And so God just used that to take me on about a six-month journey. God opened my eyes to the truth when my former husband, who was also on his own journey, he stopped drinking and abusing. We used to be in an abusive marriage. It was very unhealthy. When that changed, it was sort of like that trigger for me. God was revealing . . . He had already got through my mental barriers, you know, like. . . But then it was that last kind of that personal miracle, that personal evidence that He has power. And that was kind of the turning point for me. I was like You must be real. I had already. . . God had already brought me kind of to that edge, but it was just that thing that He used. And what’s the most astounding part of that story to me is that, sadly, my former husband, he very quickly, just weeks later, just kind of fell back to where he was. . .
Eryn: Oh dear!
Shadia: . . . He was kind of like that seed on the rocky soil. It blossomed, you know, but never truly took root. But what I find astounding is that God can even use a false conversion for His purposes, because for me, there. . . there was still evidence there. It was just that turning point for me.
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: I recognized my sin. You know, I’m very black and white. When the pastor who was ministering to us was like, “Do you believe you’re a sinner,” after they had explained what it was. And I’m like, “Well, yeah!” I’m thinking like by the time 14, you know, I’ve done it all, you know. And ...um... you know I’m not glorifying that. I’m sorry about that. But I recognize that very easily, again, that black-and-white thinking. But God used all that, and I just . . . I just gave my heart to the Lord. And I was like, You must be real. If You’re real, I want You in my life.
Eryn: I am so grateful for your vulnerability, giving us a fast scope into your life.
Elisa: You shared you and your husband are divorced. You then began, after your coming to know Jesus, really hungry for Scripture as I understand it. And really wanted to dive in and understand and went so far as to . . . you’ve written lots of Bible studies on the women of the Bible. And I’m curious about how that hunger was shaped.
Shadia: So many beautiful aspects in those pieces of the story. I would say when I first became a Christian, and I was introduced to the Bible, which I had never opened before. Never owned one, never . . . you know I saw one in a pew once at a wedding, that kind of thing. And so I didn’t even know that I was hungry until I was fed. You know, and I was like I was starving! Part of it was I felt almost like it was a fairytale that, like, Could this really be true? That’s how beautiful the gospel was to me. I felt like this is almost like as a child reading a fairytale. It’s not, for sure, but that’s how I would describe how it felt. Like Is that . . . you know before I became saved. Like Could this really be true? And then when God opened my eyes and clearly revealed Himself in so many ways, answered prayers and opening my eyes. And I began reading His Word, and the more I read the hungrier I got. You know I just. . . I just was devouring God’s Word, because one of the things that I remember sort of discovering early on, within the first year. I wouldn’t say the first weeks or anything, but the first year, as I was reading the Bible, I was seeing for myself, like Oh wow, this goes with this! Oh wow, that connects to that! And I was astonished, like It’s all connected! I mean that . . . just that alone, you know, and that still thrills me. I love that about God’s Word!
Eryn: I would love to know: What woman of the Bible that you read, that just something clicked in your head, or that you just felt connected to that you wanted to explore more?
Shadia: That actually happened when I was in seminary. Ten years went by where I was reading the Bible and so forth, but I can’t recall, during those ten years . . . And God was also doing a lot of healing in my heart and a lot of work. And so everything in the Bible to me was new and fun. When God called me to go to seminary, and, you know, in seminary you do some deep dives and, you know, you study everything. You read the entire Bible and so forth, but you do some deep dives in various things. And it was Hagar’s story — and I think it was my last year of seminary — that just, it was always in the back of my mind. God sees her. You know she went through so much. She suffered so much. And yet God chose her to reveal Himself in an astounding way! You know she wasn’t the chosen person. She wasn’t the chosen family. She was a slave, I mean, she’s a woman, and back in that culture, you know, it just always intrigued me how God could step into such what would seem to be a dark, heartbreaking story. But yet when you get to the end of it, you realize, Wait a minute. There was a blessing bestowed on her by that Angel of the Lord. And so this whole concept of “God sees” actually became the inspiration for the other studies that I’ve written, you know, in exploring what I call the unsung heroes. And so Hagar was the first one.
Elisa: Hagar is the woman that maybe God first attracted you to, and the depth of the dark threads in her story you connected with. You know Hagar was the slave of Abraham and Sarah, the father of Israel. And, you know, Sarah had been infertile forever, and they grew impatient. And so they thought they would use Hagar to produce a child, and then Sarah got really belligerent and cursed her and sent her off into the wilderness. But God met Hagar even there. And in our dark moments, God meets us and says He sees us. That is so rich, Shadia, and I’m also just . . . I’m thinking, too, of a more recent study that you’ve done on Rahab. And Rahab was a woman of the night, if you will, and her story is filled with dark threads as well. I’m wondering why you were attracted to Rahab and what dark threads in your life you might have related to in her, and what you’ve learned, how she’s shaped you as you’ve studied her.
Shadia: Yeah. I seem to be attracted to what I call the messy stories in the Bible.
Elisa: That’s a good way to put it.
Shadia: Yeah. I mean every study I’ve written is based on a character in the Bible who experienced some kind of trauma or was outcast or in some form looked down upon. But when God steps into their story, there’s always redemption, which is true for us as well. And so that’s why I’m attracted to these particular stories. Rahab’s story is fascinating. Rahab, as you said, you know, she’s a woman of the night. She’s a prostitute. I mean the Scripture is very clear on that. What’s interesting about it is we don’t know how she got that way. . .
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: . . . you know, was she paying off family debt? Was this a choice? And very likely not a choice, but whatever led her onto this path, she is yet a very courageous woman that, despite her life circumstances, somehow is clinging to this thread of hope. . .
Elisa: Yes!
Shadia: . . . And that right there is astounding! How easy it would be to just fall into, you know, despair and bitterness. And at the beginning of the story, when she’s introduced in Scripture, you know, we don’t even know where that, you know, comes from. I mean people in that time, you know, news would travel. And it does talk about the fact that they had heard of the Israelites and the Israelite God parting the Red Sea for the Israelites to escape Egypt, of how they are conquering neighboring kings. So she’s aware of all this, but she’s the only person in the entire city who, rather than turning from God in anger and fear and so forth and running away, she’s drawing near in her heart because when. . . you know we know that because when the spies come, it’s not like . . . You know her profession of faith is not something that just came up that moment. You know this had to be developing over some time. Some of the aspects of her story I find so beautiful are the fact that where it appears in Scripture. . . So, you know, again, everything is very interconnected. You can’t read the story out of context. You can’t just read the book of Joshua to get Rahab’s story. . .
Elisa: Good point!
Shadia: . . . You have to know the background. . .
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: . . . You have to know what happened to the Israelites; because, at this point, the Israelites are camped on the other side of the Jordan River from where Jericho is and where Rahab is in the city of Jericho. They’re camped in a city called Shittim, so here they are on the edge of the Promised Land, a promise from God that generations had been waiting for, that they had been wandering in the wilderness as, you know. . . waiting for this promise to be fulfilled by God that they’re going to enter the Promised Land. They’re going to have their own land, their own God, and all of this fulfillment of this promise to Abraham that they’ve all been waiting for. And while they’re camped at this city, they’re falling into idolatry. They’re worshiping other gods, and in the meantime, you’ve got this prostitute in this pagan city who’s turning to God. On the edge of this conquest story, just think of the drama. You almost want to hear the drums playing in the background, you know, like getting louder and louder. Like they’re on the edge of the Promised Land. They’re ready to go in. God’s going to give them this land! And God puts the whole thing on hold to tell us all about Rahab. Why is she that important? Two chapters are devoted to her, and in Scripture that’s quite a bit. Joshua chapter 2, Joshua chapter 6, and of course, she’s in the New Testament as well. And so everything is put on hold to tell us about Rahab.
Eryn: Why do you think she was important?
Shadia: Two things, and this is what I love about God. The first important was she’s a soul created in the image of God. God loves her. That’s one of the reasons, and God cares about her, cares about her enough to recognize her longing for Him, that He’s going to step in.
Elisa: Beautiful. Yeah.
Shadia: The other reason is to teach us because we’re Rahab. God’s people are Rahab. We are the prostitute in a city destined for destruction. There’s no hope but God, and those who cry out to Him will be saved.
Eryn: Amen!
Shadia: She is a picture of the prostitute who becomes the Bride of Christ. She is a picture of the Church.
Elisa: You know this takes me straight back to your salvation experience, Shadia. It takes me back to that Bible study you described and how, you know, there’s all around people who in your life have practiced a kind of religion that hasn’t been real.
Eryn: Yeah.
Elisa: There as this genuine relationship, you know, this true imprint of You are God’s daughter, you know, brought forward, for His purposes brought forward. And everything else falls away. I can see why you’re attracted to Rahab, and I can see how all of us would be attracted to her.
Eryn: We can tend to feel very alone in our questions and curiosities sometimes. And I think what you said about Rahab was. . . She didn’t lose hope on God. She had a curiosity. I think we all do. We don’t want to lose hope. We have questions, some that get answered, some that don’t. And when some that don’t, we have to remind ourselves of who God is and His faithfulness. I think many women listening right now can really identify with that. Would you maybe speak some encouragement to the woman that identifies with the position that Rahab was in?
Shadia: I think Rahab’s story can provide all of us encouragement because in one form or another, all of us have lived a life apart from God. There were seasons where we have gone our own way. It can be a religious person, you know, that does all the right things, but still their heart is not yearning for God, is no walking with God. And Rahab, sort of like you were sharing a little bit of my background, just this. . . those who made all the mistakes that seem ... that are more obvious, I guess, seem external. But at the end of the day, it’s a heart issue. It really doesn’t matter what our background is. It doesn’t matter what we’ve done or haven’t done. It’s really about like: Does our heart long for the Savior? You know, do we recognize our need for a Savior? Rahab recognized there’s destruction coming, and for good reason. All around her was evil and darkness and so forth. And we also live in a culture today where we are surrounded. . . We might have some privileges and live fairly comfortably, especially here in first-world nations and so forth, have comforts. But we are surrounded by darkness. And so to assume that God’s going to ignore all that, I mean Christ came for a reason. He came because of the darkness. He came to free us from those chains of darkness.
Eryn: What do you think Rahab was telling herself? I would imagine the days of Rahab, when she is going through and witnessing everything, all of the darkness around her, fighting against her flesh, trying to pursue and cling to hope, and knowing the faithfulness of God. I guess I just want to know: What do you think her thought life was like and her conversations?
Shadia: That’s a great question. There are areas where Scripture is silent, but that doesn’t mean it’s not helpful for us, just for our own processing, to explore, you know, what this person might have been thinking, what they might have been feeling. We don’t make conclusions based on those things about, you know, the Scripture or God or that person or so forth . . .
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: . . . But they’re still wonderful questions to explore. And so, I mean, for Rahab, it’s challenging really because we don’t even know what led her to become in the position that she is. We know she’s living alone; you know, she’s processing what she has heard. She has heard about this God of Israel. She is living in a doomed city, and it’s almost amazing that she’s the only person. You know, in other words, when you put the pieces together, it’s like why wouldn’t everybody, or at least some, be scrambling? But I think when those spies came to her door, you almost wonder like did she pray? Did she wish, you know, and not. . . not know it as a prayer? What was in their heart. . . because God brought the spies to her house. I mean that’s clear. It is a big, huge city; all the places they could go. I mean God’s going to bring them to the one who believes or who is ready to believe? This is providence.
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: . . . So there’s already something working in her heart, stirring in her heart, that God responds to by bringing these spies in. And at the same time, we know about her to be a very courageous woman, very self-sacrificing woman. You think about it. When those spies left, she could’ve left with them. She could have saved her skin right then and there that night. But she stayed back in order to save her family.
Elisa: You know one of the things that you have talked about in talking about Rahab’s story and just in the Bible study that you created is you say that Rahab’s story is our story. Can you share how Rahab’s story is your story and how it is also our story?
Shadia: Her story is my story because I lived a life of many wicked choices, many poor decisions, many tragedies. But God responded to a hunger in my heart that I didn’t even consciously recognize was there. And how gracious of Him to do that!
Eryn: Yeah.
Shadia: And so He transformed my life into a servant of Christ, where I was previously a slave to the devil, just complete transformation. And in the way that Rahab’s story is all of our story is that beauty. That kind of that “beauty from ashes.” All of us have, you know, are walking in darkness prior to coming to know Christ. We are making poor choices. Our hearts might be cold. But God in His mercy sees and chooses and calls out those to Himself and makes us. . . You know, we were the prostitute. Now we’re the Bride of Christ. You know in the New Testament Rahab’s listed in the lineage of Christ. . .
Elisa: Right.
Shadia: In Chronicles, she’s described as marrying “a prince of Judah.” So you take this whole concept: The prostitute marries the prince, literally. Literally! This is our story as the Body of Christ.
Elisa: Yeah.
Shadia: We were the prostitute. You know we were the Israelites on the other side of the Jordan, sacrificing to false gods which are actually demons, and yet God still did not abandon them because He had made a promise to them from the beginning. God keeps His promises. I just love that. And so here we are. We are a walking testament of God’s faithfulness to His promises. The entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, is a picture of God pursuing His adulterous Bride. And Rahab’s story brings that to light. Every single one of us are a representation of that beautiful redemption!
Elisa: The dark threads that the Weaver uses — Rahab’s life shows a beautiful tapestry of some messed-up moments that God can redeem. And if He can do that for her, He can do it for us. Right?
Shadia: Amen. Amen. And He does, and He wants to!
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Eryn: I love how God pursued Rahab and changed the course of her life. And how amazing is it that Shadia is a living example of that same pursuit?
Elisa: This was a great conversation. Well, before we go, be sure to check out our website to find a link for Shadia’s study on Rahab. You can find that and more at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.o.r.g.
Eryn: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget: God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.
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Elisa: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. We also want to thank Daniel and Chriscynthia for all of their help and support. Thanks everyone.
[ODB theme]
Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.
