Becoming a Trailblazer with Ambassador Sujay Cook

God Hears Her Podcast
Episode 36 – Becoming a Trailblazer
Elisa Morgan and Eryn Eddy with Ambassador Sujay

[introduction for ​God Hears Her​] [music]

Ambassador Sujay:​ The generation who’s trailblazing had to pull the door open. This generation can walk on the trails that have been blazed. And you…sometimes you…the door is just waiting for you to push it open. And so you wanna just be, again, prepared for when the door has already been there, just waiting for you to come.

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay: ​So know your worth. So know your worth. Know your self-worth. Know your value. Know what you’re good at. And then what you’re not good at, that’s why presidents have cabinets. Outsource, surround yourself with people who know things that are different than you.

Eryn:​ So good.

[music]

Voice: You’re listening to ​God Hears Her, ​a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on ​God Hears Her.

[music]
Elisa:​ Welcome to ​God Hears Her.​ I’m Elisa Morgan.

[music]

Eryn:​ And I’m Eryn Eddy. What do you think of when you hear the word “trailblazer?” Maybe a pioneer or an innovator, a person who takes risks in order to brave a new path. After speaking with our guest today, Ambassador Sujay, I’d like to add her name to the definition of trailblazer.

[music]

Elisa:​ Me too, Eryn. Okay, Reverend, Doctor, Ambassador Susan Johnson Cook or Ambassador Sujay as we enjoy calling her, is a lady of many firsts. A national and international influencer, Ambassador Sujay was the first female and African-American to hold a position of US Ambassador for international religious freedom. Wow. She has been the faith advisor to two presidents, the first female chaplain for the New York City Police Department. The list goes on and on.

[music]

Eryn:​ Right? I mean she also is an author of fifteen books. And she’s often in demand as a preacher, motivator, and keynote speaker. But today in spite of all of her accomplishments and accolades, we get to talk to her as a new friend and to hear her story about following God’s lead. And as you can imagine, much of her story will involve, well, trailblazing, opening the door to new things and holding that door open for the next woman to walk through. This is ​God Hears Her​.

Elisa:​ It’s a total privilege to have you with us, Ambassador Sujay. Thanks so much for being with us.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be with you.
Elisa:​ And I think you’re coming to us from Long Island, New York, right?
Ambassador Sujay:​ That’s correct.

Elisa:​ This is the beauty of our world right now, that we can gather via Zoom and record together. So today we are honored to have you, Ambassador Sujay. And…and you are a woman of a huge list of firsts.

Eryn:​ Yes.
Elisa:​ Yeah. What are some of the firsts that…that you’ve done in…in your life Ambassador Sujay?

Ambassador Sujay:​ It’s like the Santa Claus list that kids have. So I’ve got this long list. And so…

Elisa:​ I love it.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …I’ll kinda wrap it up. But I was born into a family… My parents were actually rural sharecroppers in this generation. But they knew that that was not their destiny. And so they both made it from the south fields and they made it to New York City. And on their first day, both in New York, they met, married, built a family, built wealth, and taught us kind of what privilege is about but also that we are able to give to others. And so part of my upbringing was not only being raised in the North, but going down South, what they call down South, every summer to our maternal grandparents, where all the first cousins would gather. And that would allow us to have the northern/southern experience, but also to know our culture, from where we came, from whence we came. And they were the richest summers ever. And so I…I’m first because my parents plowed…they really were trailblazers in terms of the black migration, coming from the South and taking the risk against poverty to say that we’re not gonna stay there. And we’re gonna do something that’s gonna be different. So they were the first. They built a business. They were civil servants by day. There were building a business by night, in partnership.

Eryn:​ Wow.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And so as a result of that, when I went to college, I didn’t have to do student loans. I didn’t have to do any of that. I was standing on the shoulders of parents who really built something. So instead of asking for the check…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …we could write the check. And I think that that mindset allowed me to be able to be a trailblazer, to be able to go into rooms where I had not gone before, but not be afraid of those. And so God…

Elisa:​ Oh, man.

Ambassador Sujay:​ … then, does the rest. God says, “I can entrust you with trailblazing in this sphere. I can entrust you with trailblazing in that sphere.” So I became the first African-American woman in the American Baptist Churches to be elected to a senior pastorate and pastored for 32 years in my hometown. Became the first female chaplain of the New York City Police Department, from that same church that I was called to. And then became one of President Clinton’s faith advisors, from that same church. But I think every road leads to the next road that the Lord would want you to have. But it’s about, “What have you done with what I’ve given you?”

Elisa:​ I love that. And…and I love the…the…the emphasis very early in your life of understanding… And I’m sure your parents shaped you in this way, that you had been stewarded with a trailblazing responsibility. How did you come to identify that big idea? Cause, you know, Eryn and I’ve talked a lot about, you know, how do we know God’s leading in us at a young age, at an older age? How do we know what that theme is? So, how did you come to identify this theme of trailblazer?

Ambassador Sujay:​ I think, you know, when you get to the end of the trail that you’ve blazed, you understand it a lot better. Because as you’re going through it sometimes it’s challenging. Most times it’s challenging. But it’s the people who are surrounding you that help make it more easeful or easy. So I had parents who were in a household that said, “Yes, you can.” Long before President Obama was using that as his slogan, my parents were saying, “Yes, you can.” So no was not an answer. Failure was not an option. And it did not mean that there were some times that you would not make it or be successful, but it meant, what do you do when you fall down? You get back up.

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Ambassador Sujay:​ What do you do when you made a wrong decision? You learn from that, and you correct it the next time. So I wasn’t afraid to go into places. And they gave me permission…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …to be free. So at 14 I was in a private school, again trailblazing. It had two African-Americans in my whole grade, not my class, my whole grade. But they…they knew that there was something more for me than sitting on the corner with the teenagers, hanging out when school was over. So they wanted to make sure my paths were directed, because they were working hard. They were working two and three jobs. So they couldn’t afford to have me kinda like just aimlessly wandering in the streets. Because New York, as you know, is a big city, and the streets can win. If you’re in the streets, the streets…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …will win. So they made sure that my paths were directed. They surrounded me with a lot of love, a lot of fun. So I had a family filled with faith and a lot of fun. So every Sunday, no matter what church you went to, people gathered at my mother’s house. She was like the matriarch of the community, as well as the matriarch of our family. So we would gather for food. And there was fellowship. And people would stay in my mother’s house literally to the next morning. I would say, “Don’t you have to go to work?” I mean, because it was like, “Y’all got to go home or leave here.” But we had so much fun. So we had this intergenerational community of kids who were in the room. We weren’t, like, go to the corner and say nothing. We were in the conversations. Then there were the teenagers. Then there were the young adults. And then there were the seniors. So we learned to respect everyone’s age. We learned to respect everyone’s thoughts and opinions. And everyone had something to say, so I think that happened early in life. And so I ended up in rooms where people were like, “You have something to say. We in…we invited you because you have something to say. So we want you to contribute in the rooms.” And so no matter where I went as a trailblazer, I was surrounded by people. So in ministry, you know, particularly for an African-American woman, I was off… I was African-American; I was female, and I was in a male tradition. But there were older men…

Elisa:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …that said, “Look. We’ll embrace you as a father, as a spiritual dad.” And I think you have to be accepting of that embrace. So I was like, “Yeah, I’ll be your daughter.” You know, not…not…it’s not this male against female thing. So some women who came in were like, “Men are just… We can’t deal with men.” Well, no. That’s not really the approach. My thing was, “We deal with men. We’re coming in a tradition that’s male, so let’s do with…deal with them as friends, rather than foe, as colleagues, rather than as people who we’re competing against.” And so the older men opened doors for me that I could have never opened for myself. They would introduce me to their colleagues, “This is my daughter. I want you to have her to preach.” “This is my daughter. I want you to nominate her for,” such and such a position. And so we’d be in this room, and nobody would expect that this young woman (I was like 26 at the time) would be at the table. But I was. And pe… So I think trailblazing can have its tolls, but I think it can also have its triumphs. And I think we have to look for the places that we can celebrate as opposed to the places that knock us down.

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Elisa:​ That is so rich. Eryn, have you been mentored by a man in that way and invited into using your influence? Do you know what’s she’s talking about here?

Eryn:​ Oh, I do, especially in the South and being a female business owner. I’m 4’11”. And I own a company that reminds people of their self-worth and how to learn how to love themselves. So I’m already, like…I could be put into this box of fluffy, feel good. She’s 4’11”, this little pixy, you know, looks like Polly Pocket. And so I’m…I’m al…yeah, already…I already have some barriers with that.

Elisa:​ Yeah.

Eryn:​ And specifically in the South within business. And I remember an op…an…a moment where women started to get invited to these…these business entrepreneurial meetings in Atlanta. And there was a part of me that wanted to… The bitter…the bitterness, like, the hurt part of me wanted to go, “I’m not going to that.” And then the other part of me was like, “No. I’m going to that. And I’m gonna embrace and show grace and compassion and show how you can unite and lock arms, and we can both help each other and serve.” And I…that…when I made that choice, it elevated opportunities for me instead of me, you know, choosing to be bitter and being angry and sitting in that.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Eryn:​ But what I… I love what you said, like, being a trailblazer can have its toll. Like, and then it can also have its triumphs. And I’m so curious. How did you maintain or have there been times where you have really struggled with the confidence and even like, you know, Christ’s confidence, confidence that is so supernatural in those moments of feeling like it is just taking a toll on you? Cause I feel like I’ve…as much as I am resilient, good night. I’ve those moments. How…?

Ambassador Sujay:​ Sure!
Eryn:​ Have you had those? And tell me…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Oh, sure.
Eryn:​ …how did you handle them? Give me advice.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Oh, I’ve been on the ledge about to jump a few times. You know? But I always had… Like, even when I was a pastor, I had five pastors. You know? And I didn’t have women role models in ministry, but I had role models in business because of my parents. So you…you kinda put together this eclectic group that’s your support group. It wasn’t all ministers, and it wasn’t all business people, but all of them came together to help me. So from coming into ministry, you know, sometimes you felt very…I felt very alone. You know? And isolated, like, I am the only one…almost like… Who was the…who was the…the…that went into the cave? Elijah, when he…

Eryn:​ Elijah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …went into the cave and he was like, “Lord…

Eryn:​ Yep.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …I’m all alone.” But God said, “Get out that cave. What are you doing in there?” And so…

Eryn:​ That’s such a great analogy, yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …I’ve had people show up, you know, and say, “What…what are you doing in that cave? Don’t even try it. As much as the Lord has blessed you…” And what they’ve done is they’ve allowed me to find the blessings and look at the blessings. So, you know, there’s this hymn ​Count Your Blessings​, name them one by one, and it will surprise you what the Lord has done. So when you compile the blessings and you look at the places where you felt not blessed, the list is so long. And so, you know, you just kinda grit, you know, bear it up and you take care of it. But I was gonna say to your point about size and about… You know, I’ve always been tall. I’ve been 5’10”, like, since 7​ grade. And so…

Eryn:​ Wow.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …because of that, I could look men in the eyes. And so it made a very big difference. I never looked down; I never looked up; I looked at. And I talked to. And I would not let them talk down, because they could not look down on me.

Eryn:​ That’s so good.
Ambassador Sujay:​ So I think height had a lot to do with my confidence. My father was…

Elisa:​ Interesting.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …6’2”. You know, my sons are 6’2” and 6’4”. And so I think height, walking into the room made such a big difference in terms of that. But at the same time there were people who still went with all of that, were kind of, like, condescending, like, “You’re not supposed to be in this room.” And I never felt that I should not. I never knew that I could not. And so…

Eryn:​ You’re like…

Elisa:​ Amen.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Like, who…who are they talking to, like, cause it sure is not me. So I pull up…I pull up my chair, and I’m like, “So, how y’all doing today?” They’re, like, astounded. They’re like… So they said…

Elisa:​ I love it!

Ambassador Sujay:​ …“This woman’s crazy, so we gotta listen to her.”

Elisa:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And so all of that really made such a difference. And again, like I said, there’s this… I was…I was writing this thing. I said there’s some P’s that you need to know. There’s always going to be politics. You gotta know policies. You gotta know pumps. You gotta have shoes that don’t hurt your feet. You have to have…you have to have a purse, because at some point you do have to pay your…you have to pay your dues, and you have to pay your way. You sh…you can’t ask for a free ticket if you want to be at the table. So if the cost of the dinner was $150, you find $150 dollars and say, “Here. I’m at the table. I’m paying for my way,” so that…

Elisa:​ Good, good.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …nobody’s saying, “I’m paying for you, so you really can’t be here.” No, I’m paying my way. And this is the other P that I add, is you have to have protectors. Which are the people who look out for you no matter what. Sometimes they’re in the room at the table with you. Other times they’re picking up the phone and says, “She’s gonna be at that meeting, and I want you to make sure you take care of her.” “She’s gonna be at that meeting, and she’s my daughter.” And those are people you can’t pay for. And so that’s why I said the role of the spiritual father was so important, because they know the road. They’ve blazed their own trails. They’ve… And they know your colleagues or your colleagues to be. And so they will also give you hints as to when you don’t wanna hang out with that particular person. Because they may have a reputation for not being kind to women or seeing women as sexual objects. And they were like, “Daughter, come over here.” You know? Listen…listen to your dad. And so they protected not only my being in the room, but they protected my reputation. So that as you’re building and as you’re being elevated by God, you don’t have any blemishes. And I think that that is so important for women, that you, you know, you trailblaze, yes, but you try to go in there as clean as possible. Because if someone has dirt on you, then they use that at some point against you. And so you wanna go in, not dirty.

Eryn:​ So good.

[music]

Elisa:​ And when we return, Ambassador Sujay will elaborate on additional P words needed for becoming a trailblazer. We’ll also look at what it means to stop fighting with one another and instead unite and work together for the good of all. That’s next on ​God Hears Her.​

[music]

Eryn:​ Thank you for listing to this ​God Hears Her​ podcast. Elisa and I love sharing this space with you. And we want to invite you to become an even bigger part of our ​God Hears Her​ community by signing up for our weekly email newsletters. We’ll keep you updated on new podcasts, encouraging blog posts, exciting new products, and so much more. Just go to godhearsher.org and sign up today. That’s godhearsher.org. Now back to the show.

[music]
Elisa:​ Welcome back to ​God Hears Her​. I’m Elisa Morgan.

Eryn:​ And I’m Eryn Eddy. And in just a minute Ambassador Sujay will come up with more P words for us to focus on when it comes to trailblazing. But first,they adigital download,​The Call of Wisdom: Insight from the book of Proverbs.​ T,by Alice Matthews, shares the characteristics of wisdom as she examines the book of Proverbs. And she helps us see the value in having the proper perspective on our priorities. We believe this resource could be helpful for any trailblazer. And tJ

Elisa:​ Now back to our conversation with Ambassador Sujay. Before the break Ambassador Sujay provided us with a list of guidelines for women trailblazing in a man’s world, including a list of P words that are helpful to know.

Eryn:​ And that’s where we will continue the conversation. Ambassador Sujay provides us with few more helpful P words for trailblazing. Gosh, gotta love the word association technique. This is ​God Hears Her.​

Elisa:​ I wanna review these… You’re giving out these brilliant wisdom-ishes. They’re just principles of…of wisdom. Wisdom-ish – I think that’s something. Anyway. And I just wanna review them and…and then I wanted to ask you to even mine them further…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Sure.

Elisa:​ …Ambassador Sujay. You know, you’re talking about being a trailblazer as a woman. And I’m hearing you say, receive the invitation, receive it when a man wants to give you favor and include you. I’m hearing you also say, stay out of the caves you wanna run into to protect yourself. Resist the urge to hide. I’m hearing you say count your blessings and stand on them. I’m hearing you say strongly, use who you are whether you’re 5’10”, as you are, or 4’11” as Eryn…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yes.
Elisa:​ …is. Use who you are. And then these P’s, politics, policies, pumps, purse, and protectors, this is rockin’ it.
Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Elisa:​ And…and you’re talking about, as a trailblazer specifically with men, which I love, but I wonder if we could just turn a tiny couple of degrees here and look at, how do we…what are principles that you’ve discovered…? Because you’ve done a ton of work with reconciliation, with conflict resolution, with help…diplomacy, helping different people hear each other and respect each other. Especially to, maybe even honing this in on women. What kinds of principles and experiences would you help us trailblaze unity as women…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Oh, that’s a great question.

Elisa:​ …as we work together?

Ambassador Sujay:​ Great question. So there’s a couple more P’s as you were talking that came in my head.

Elisa:​ I love the P’s. Okay, go.

Ambassador Sujay:​ So one is to have principles, the l-e-s, that you are a person of principle, which is kinda what I ended the other statement on. That…that you are principled, and that I learned first from my family. Some people may not have the same family structure or strength, but you hang around with principled people, people who know the value of life. People who know right from wrong and will make sure you are taught that. And so in my family… You know, your mothers are your first teachers in most instances. And so I was fortunate to sit at the feet of principled parents. But the second P is principals, the a-l-s, and understanding in whatever setting you’re in who’s the principal? So that as a pastor in my congregation, I was a principal person. When I went to the United State Ambassadorship, I was not the principal. I was reporting to the President of the United States and the Secretary of State. So it wasn’t about my opinion. I accepted an assignment to work for them and to work for the… So you have to know who’s the principal in the room at the time you’re serving. And make a distinct decision whether I’m ready to do this. If I’m not ready to follow your leadership, then this is not the right place for me at this particular time.

Elisa:​ And just doing that resolves a lot of potential conflicts because you understand the lines of authority, and you yield to them…

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Elisa:​ …instead of…

Ambassador Sujay:​ You…

Elisa:​ …bucking up against them. Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And…and the Bible tells us to pray for those who are in authority. So you can be praying as you go through it, but you have to understand who’s in authority and really respect that. And then you have to persevere. That if you’ve made a decision, this is where I’m supposed to be, know that the road’s going to be rough. You know, you’re trailblazing. There’re going to be people who are haters, as the world calls them. And there’ll be people who are celebrators. And so know that you’re gonna have people sometimes who set you up just because you’re you. It has nothing to do with you, but it’s just because you’re you and the Lord’s favor’s upon your life. So you have to persevere, and you have to make it a point that, “I am gonna hang in here. I’m gonna stick with it.” And then when they gets to the point where I cannot, then how do I gracefully end the relationship? Not abruptly resign, not run away, but how do I gracefully, you know, leave as I came in? Because you wanna always have relationships that are lasting…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …because you don’t know when you’re gonna be in the room with these same people again. So if you, what the world calls, if you burn the bridge, then you can’t come back, because you didn’t leave properly.

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And then the other P I would say is positioning. So sometimes a man or a woman will invite you. And sometimes you’re not on the first invitation list, you’re not on the round… Like, you’re not gonna get an invitation to the inauguration right yet. But! You can position yourself so when the opportunity comes, you are prepared, another P. So that maybe they didn’t know you. Maybe they overlooked you the first round. Maybe they just were like, “No, she’s not ready for this.” But when the opportunity comes and you do get an invite, whether it’s electronically, digitally, or whether it’s in the mail with a handwritten invitation, you have to be ready. So if it’s a ball, if it’s an inaugural ball, having your black-tie stuff ready. You know, knowing what you wear and when you wear it. Having your grammar polished, so that when you go in the room people aren’t, like, saying, “Oh, my gosh. They can’t speak,” you know? “They don’t…they don’t know the English language. So they cannot represent me anywhere, not overseas or in this room.” So you do your homework. You get the… The other P is you polish. You…you get polished at your profession. And so you become… They used to say to me, the State Department, “Be the smartest one in the room,” which means you know your subject matter, but you know other subject matters that are gonna come up in that discussion. And you polish yourself so that if any question comes to you, whether you knew the question in advance or not, you can handle it. And you can handle it with ease. And it looks like, “Oh, my gosh! She’s been doing this for all of her life.” But inside you may be saying, “Oh, I’m trembling.” But on the outside…

Eryn:​ Exactly. Right, right.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …you…you never let them see you sweat. Never let them see you sweat.

Elisa:​ Oh, I love it.
Ambassador Sujay:​ So, yeah.
Elisa:​ So, can…can you hone it down into…

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Elisa:​ …specifically women working with women?

Eryn:​ Yes.

Elisa:​ You know, I love the focus that we’ve had on working with men and really receiving mentorship and responding to favor and also being careful and protective of…of ourselves in…in a world that’s…that’s often led by men. How do we work our best with our sisters? And with folks who don’t wanna be sisters to us, but they are?

Ambassador Sujay:​ Well, that’s a great question. I think with every trailblazing experience there is a responsibility that you’re… I don’t wanna make this political, but what Kamala Harris said in her acceptance speech, “I’m the first, but I won’t be the last.” And that’s what I’ve been saying, kind of, all of my life, that I’m the first of many. You know?

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Ambassador Sujay:​ Because you…you can get stuck in, “Look at me. Look at me. I’m the first…”

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Ambassador Sujay:​ …and you can stay there.
Elisa:​ Oh, good.

Ambassador Sujay:​ But you’re the first and you die the first, then there’s something wrong. So what…

Elisa:​ Amen.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …I…you know, what I’ve done is I’ve always deposited into the next generation. And so I think what we have to do is multiply the blessing. I always say that one and one equals two, except when it’s side by side, then it’s eleven. So you have to see the larger picture.

Eryn:​ I love that.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And always say, “How can I impact the lives of other women?” So I’m raising two sons. So I…I try to make sure that I’m not always talking women in my house, because I want them to know that they’re important too.

Eryn:​ Sure.

Ambassador Sujay:​ But I also know there’s a generation of women that unless I open a door, then they’re not gonna have a door to work through. And their responsibility is to keep the door open and open it even wider for another generation. And I think that that’s so important. So it’s not about personalities, whether we click. It’s about, what is the mission?

Eryn:​ The bottom line.
Ambassador Sujay:​ And where are we going? What’s the bottom line? Who can…?

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ I’m reading a book by Bruce Wilkinson now, ​You Were Born for This.​ And the bottom line is, “God, what do You want done with the opportunities, with our lives? What do You want done?” And that’s what we should wake up every day. It’s not about, “I like her,” “I don’t like her.” That’s personality, and that’s petty, another P. But what we wanna… You know? It’s like get over it. You know, get over it if you had an argument 20 years ago with her.

Eryn:​ Right. Elisa:​ Amen.

Ambassador Sujay:​ We are…we are kingdom builders. And in… godhearsher.org

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Ambassador Sujay:​ …partnership, the kingdom can be built here on earth as it is in heaven. And I think that that’s the bottom line.

Elisa:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ So I don’t hold grudges. And I know there are people who did not wish me well in my beginning. Some people have told me, “I didn’t even think the Lord was gonna bless you like that.” Who are you to put yourself in the line with the Lord in terms of blessing me? But I don’t…

Eryn:​ Right, right.
Ambassador Sujay:​ You know? Like… But I don’t hold grudges. So when…

Eryn:​ Right.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …it’s over, either we can speak on it to one another. And offline, not in front of the whole group. Or we bury the hatchet and we wait a few years, and we say, “Look, the Lord’s blessed each of us. Now how do we do something for the Lord together?”

Elisa:​ Gorgeous.
Eryn:​ I love…I love that, because staying…staying on track with the bottom line really does dissipate the jealousy bone and the…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Eryn:​ …comparison bone and the… All… Or these muscles that we pre…we flex. I feel like women flex those muscles. The…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Oh, yeah.
Eryn: ​…comparison just can get us from pursuing the bottom line.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Eryn:​ And have you…? What is…what is your thoughts on that? Or, Elisa, do you have some thoughts too on just comparison within…?

Elisa:​ I…I guess… Comparison’s huge. And I…and I…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Elisa:​ …think that the question that’s…that’s rising up in me as you’re sharing, Ambassador Sujay, and, Eryn, you’re responding with this issue of jealousy or comparison, is I think a lot of women respond to opportunities with a kind of, “I haven’t been invited like she has been invited,” kinda thing. And so we…we self-reject. You know, we self-remove ourselves from opportunities. And we think, “Well, I haven’t been invited.” And I…I guess what I wanna say is I think God’s already invited every single woman into influence. And what you’re expressing, Ambassador Sujay, about opening the door, you know, God said to me a million years ago too, “Go through this door, Elisa, and then stick your foot in it for the next woman coming.”

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yes.

Elisa:​ You know? And…and Eryn, you have done that as well. You’ve been invited in, and then you stick your foot in it. That’s what we’re called to do. So let’s speak to the women right now who are going, “But I haven’t been invited.” You know, “I don’t have what she has.” And, you know, “I’m not a diplomat, and I’m not, you know, in the White House.” And, “I’m not invited to these platforms. And so therefore what I have to offer doesn’t really count.”

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Elisa:​ What do you say to her?

Ambassador Sujay:​ That’s a great… You know. Great… I think it’s the words “comparison” and “competition” kinda go hand in hand.

Eryn:​ Yes.

Elisa:​ So good.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And I think that what COVID has done… And I…and I see the good in every single thing, even what…what the world calls negative, but what…

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …COVID has done is made it the great equalizer. So what you do is you hone the craft. You learn technology. You learn how to do Zoom webinars or Blue Jeans. And you learn how to do your thing digitally because you can touch hundreds of thousands if you do it right. And if your presentation is right. So I think that COVID has diminished the competition. And who are you comparing you to? Because everyone’s going online, and I can watch Eryn’s, and I can watch yours, and I can watch mine, all without a commute. You know?

Eryn:​ Yes.

Ambassador Sujay:​ And so on a Sunday morning I can get five messages. So my thing is make yours a…a major one. Make whatever you’re doing, if it’s in business, whatever, use this time to say, “God has given me a time to chill out.” That’s what COVID is; it’s a sela moment. It’s Scriptures. God’s given the whole world a pause. So India and China can’t go any faster than the United States. And South America can’t go any faster than Canada. So what can you do? And what can you do well? So I’m using this time to, you know, really hone my Zoom skills. I’m doing virtual summits instead of in-person keynotes. And, you know, and then what I cannot do, I outsource and I hire another woman. You know? So we’re getting ready to do this virtual summit, and it’s gonna be all women. It’s gonna be a women Zoom…I call it Zoomologist.

Eryn:​ I love that.

Ambassador Sujay:​ It’s gonna be a woman voice over. It’s gonna be women panelists. It’s gonna be a woman producer. And so we’re creating opportunities for women who never really worked together before. But we’re gonna have a major product. So I think you find opportunities in your time of d…what we call down time. And you hone your skills, so that when you come out, they’re like, “Where have you been?” You’re, like…

Eryn:​ Yeah.
Ambassador Sujay:​ …“Preparing myself. Positioning myself for this moment.”

Eryn:​ That’s right. I love that. That’s it. That’s exactly it. It’s po…it’s preparing yourself. I think to the woman that is feeling like she’s comparing herself because she hasn’t gotten an invite, I think there’s opportunity to channel that hiddenness that you might feel.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Right.

Eryn:​ Because I think sometimes when you’re not invited, you feel hidden. You feel like your gifts aren’t being used and you don’t know why doors are being closed or why they’re not being opened. And so I think in those moments, like to what you just said, it’s use that opportunity to pivot into preparation. I love all the P’s that we’re doing.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Yeah.

Eryn:​ Pivot to prepare, you know, for an opportunity to come. And you also don’t have to… I mean your story and Elisa, your story, and my story, I haven’t always had to depend on somebody to open a door for me.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Exactly.
Eryn:​ I just pivoted and continued to move forward.

Elisa:​ Yeah, yeah.

Eryn:​ And by doing that, you know, it’s like pull up the anchor; let the boat start moving, and let God do the steering. And He’ll steer it. And so sometimes I’ve had to do that when people haven’t opened any doors for me or any…any invites haven’t come. I’ve haven’t lost faith. I think sometimes we can lose faith in thinking because somebody isn’t extending something to us, somebody isn’t…

Ambassador Sujay:​ Exactly.
Eryn:​ …opening something for us, that must mean the Lord doesn’t wanna use it as that. It must mean

that the Lord can’t hear us. And…and that, I think, is just such a lie of the enemy.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Very much so.

Eryn:​ Because He has used me. He has used you. He’s used you to do really amazing things that no other person…like, no other person can open doors to.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Exactly.
Eryn:​ That is the ultimate, ultimate door opener.

Ambassador Sujay:​ Door opener. I would say two things to that. I think you’re so correct, and you’re right on. No, I would say two things. One is not every invitation is for you either. And that’s why we’re…

Eryn:​ Yes.
Ambassador Sujay:​ …called discernment…

Elisa:​ That’s good.
Ambassador Sujay:​ …because you know…

Elisa:​ Yup.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …just because somebody’s at that table, doesn’t mean it’s your table. But I would say the other P is pull. The generation who’s trailblazing have to pull the door open. This generation can walk on the trails that have been blazed. And you…sometimes you…the door is just waiting for you to push it open. And so you wanna just be, again, prepared for when the door has already been there, just waiting for you to come.

Eryn:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ So know your worth. Know your self-worth. Know your value. Know what you’re good at. And then what you’re not good at, that’s why presidents have cabinets. Because they can’t be the economic person and the HUD person and the housing and human ser… So they surround themselves with people who will be specialists in that. And that’s what a good administration is, whether you’re in ministry, whether you’re in the…whatever profession. Outsource. Surround yourself with people who know things that are different than you, who can… Be teachable. You know, I don’t wanna always be in the aufo…authority position. That’s why I live right now where I’m living, because it’s a place where not everyone’s coming to me for, you know, advice and for wisdom. But I can go to the beach and hang out for a minute. You know? And just be Sujay. And I think you have to find places like that, where you’re not the authority person. Sometimes you’re sitting at the feet. And sometimes you’re just chilling. And in chilling, God can restore you and pour into you. So you don’t have to be busy all the time. I love the story of Deborah. You know, she sat under the palm tree of Deborah. And people came to her for judgement. She wasn’t running to this city and then running to that. Which says to me she understood time management. And…and even when Barak came to her about battle, she was like, “Let me listen up first.” Because not every battle is your battle. She had to make…

Elisa:​ Yeah.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …a decision…

Elisa:​ Amen.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …whether this is my battle. So choose wisely. Be discerning. Listen up to the Lord, and listen for what God is saying for your path to be. And if the path has already been created, don’t try to start another path. Walk on the paths that have been blazed. Say thank you to your predecessors, but then open the door so some other people can walk on this path and take it even farther than your predecessors took it.

Elisa:​ Ambassador Sujay, you have this long string of firsts, one after another that you trailblazed. Can you name one last that you wanna really contribute and walk on before your…you…you see Jesus face to face?

Ambassador Sujay:​ Oh, man. Well, you know, I always wanted to be a mother, a parent, another P. So with all of the accolades, what I love is coming home to my family. Because I had a family that was wonderful and lovable, so I tried to create a…a home as a first time around for my generation. I tried to create them…and so all of my adult cousins, all of whom are younger than me. But I try to keep the family reunion piece strong. And so as our parents did… Like, all of our parents of my adult cousins are gone. So we remember those first times that we all met as cousins. We remember those reunions, where the family was like, “Get to know your cousin. Get to know…” And so for me, it may not be the first, because my parents did it, but I’m the first of my generation that is bringing all of us together, bringing black women in ministry, being a black woman business owners, together. Because I think it’s so important that we stay connected. No man is an island. No woman is an island. We don’t do it alone. And so if I had to commend a book to them… And I’m going to be doing a book for Our Daily Bread​.​ And so listen now for ​Rhythms of Rest.​ But if I had to recommend one of my books, it’s called ​Becoming a Woman of Destiny: Turning Life’s Trials into Triumphs.​ ..

Elisa:​ Oh.

Ambassador Sujay:​ …is the subtitle. And it’s based on the biblical Deborah. And it’s about, how do you take what looks like a trial and then become triumphant in Christ over what looked like it was gonna defeat you and it becomes a victory for you? And so that’s what I would commend to you.

Eryn:​ There it is, trials into triumphs, trailblazing, opening doors, and holding them so that more can walk through. What a great conversation with Ambassador Sujay. This is ​God Hears Her.​

Elisa:​ And before we close out today’s episode, just a quick reminder that the show notes are available in the podcast description. The show notes not only contain the talking points for today’s episode, but they also include a link to a free resource. It’s a digital download titled, ​The Call of Wisdom: Insight from the Book of Proverbs.​ This free download, by Alice Matthews, shares the characteristics of women as she examines the book of Proverbs and helps us see the value in having the proper perspective on our priorities. And this digital download is yours for free. Just click on the link in the podcast description or visit our website at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.

Eryn:​ Not only will you find this e-booklet, but you will also find a link to connect with Elisa and me on social. We’d love to hear from you and answer any questions that you might have or even just to pray for you.

Elisa:​ The show notes also contain a link to sign up for the ​God Hears Her​ newsletter that features helpful articles and stories from women just like you, who are discovering what it means to be seen and heard by God. So, again, you can find these links in the show notes or by visiting our website at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.

[music]

Eryn:​ Thank you for joining us. And don’t forget God hears you. He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[music]

Elisa:​ Today’s episode was engineered by Ann Stevens and produced by Daniel Ryan Day and Mary Jo Clark. And today we also want to recognize Mike and Joyce for their help in creating and promoting the God Hears Her​ podcast. Thanks, friends.

Eryn:​ ​God Hears Her​ is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.