Becoming a Woman with Moxie

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 60 – Becoming a Woman with Moxie
Elisa Morgan and Eryn Eddy with Julie Richardson

Julie: It’s just like she had this peace, and she had this joy, this inner joy. And she was always talking about Jesus and the fact that Jesus had made such a difference in her life. And it was just… it was beautiful, and I wanted it. I wanted what she had. I wanted that…that peace and that joy that she had.

Elisa: So you gave your life to God at a very early age, then?

Julie: Yes, I did.

Elisa: And have you found that peace?

Julie: Oh yes.

[Music]

Intro: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.

Elisa: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.

Eryn: And I’m Eryn Eddy. Who do you think of when you hear the word “moxie?” A close friend, your mom, a mentor? Do you know what moxie means? Today we’re talking with Julie Richardson, a woman who learned courage and determination while facing unforeseen personal struggles. As a kid, Julie watched her mom transform into a woman of moxie after coming to her faith in a very unique way.

Elisa: That’s such a great story. We are so excited to have Julie on the show. She’s actually in studio with us because she is a visual media producer at Our Daily Bread Ministries, where she shares stories of how God works in people’s lives, like other people’s. But today join us in our conversation with Julie Richardson as she talks about being a woman of moxie and the difficult life situations that grew her relationship with the Lord, on this episode of God Hears Her.

Elisa: So Julie…

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: …Thanks for being with us, and I know this is an…a different position for you, because you’re usually kind of the one who’s mic’ing everybody else up. You’re usually the one who’s on the …the… behind the camera, you know, in the production, in the directing of media projects. And today we have the mic on you, and we want to hear from you. So thanks for step into this spot with us today.

Julie: Oh, it’s my pleasure.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: It’s a joy to be here.

Elisa: You know there’s a lot that you do for media at Our Daily Bread, but I think what I’ve heard from you is just your passion for God. And I want to hear more about your journey, you know. How did you end up here at Our Daily Bread? And how has God worked in your life up to this point to reveal Himself to you and to woo you forward into some really specific contributions for His work?

Julie: Growing up, my mom came to know Christ. And she actually came to know Christ through stories on television.

Elisa: Really?

Julie: There was a program that she watched, and it was all stories of people and their journey with God.

Elisa: How old were you?

Julie: I was nine years old at the time.

Elisa: Oh my gosh!

Eryn: Aw.

Julie: And so she would…she was watching, and she ended up praying and receiving Christ through this program.

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: And so what happened was, within that year, she came to know Christ, and it was just dynamic. Like the change did a one-eighty.

Elisa: Huh.

Julie: And I was nine. My brother was seven. And my dad – all of us in the family all saw her transformation…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: And we came… we came to know Christ through her journey…

Eryn: Oh, okay.

Julie: …because she changed so much…

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: She was just on fire, I mean, she was constantly telling us stories about…

Elisa: That’s amazing.

Julie: …what God was doing in her heart. And…and she was…

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: …telling oth…other people about Jesus wherever we went.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: So it brought me to Christ, my dad, and my brother…

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: …and so…

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: Yeah. It was awesome!

Eryn: Which is amazing the influence that she had on the entire family. So tell me more about that. So what…so what were the things that were changing in your household?

Elisa: Yeah, how obvious was it?

Julie: It was …uh… She was just like a troubled soul…

Eryn: Oh.

Julie: … Right?

Elisa: Okay.

Julie: She drank a lot to try to like ease … like numb out. She and my dad used to have big parties at their house. And …um… it got pretty rowdy, and just her heart was just kinda cold. Right? And then I found out later that she and my dad were on the rocks…um… in their marriage and didn’t think they were going to make it. Dad thought he was in love with somebody else.

Eryn: Wow.

Julie: …And then that year, it’s just like she had this peace, and she had this joy, this inner joy. And she was always talking about Jesus and the fact that Jesus had made such a difference in her life. And it was just… it was beautiful, and I wanted it. I wanted what she had. I wanted that…that peace and that joy she had.

Elisa: So you gave your life to God at a very early age, then?

Julie: Yeah, I did.

Elisa: And have you found that peace?

Julie: Oh yes, I have…

Elisa: Yeah?

Julie: …You know at the beginning I did, but then as I came into my teen years, and as I got older, I started to listen to the voices of the world…

Elisa: Sure.

Julie: …you know? …um…

Eryn: What did those voices sound like?

Julie: Oh, you know, materialism…

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: …and success…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Oh, what am I going to do for my career?

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …um…you know, what should I major in in college? You know I had voices speaking into me, eh… you know, Get a good business major, be an accountant, and all of these things. So I graduated in that, and I…I was seeking like the world’s happiness. And, as I was doing those things, I started to not hear God’s voice as much.

Elisa: Oh yeah.

Julie: …His voice got softer and softer.

Elisa: That is a very powerful statement, Julie. That…that really resonates, cause when you’re listening to one thing, you can’t hear God. Huh…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …And it deafens you in some way…

Julie: Yes. Yes, for sure…

Eryn: Wow.

Julie: So I kept pursuing these things that I thought were going to make me happy…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Right? And it seemed like I was, you know, …eh… because I was on the pursuit, it seemed like I was…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …doing well…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …And I was happy about different things.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …um… I ended up, you know, one of the other voices was the relationship voice. Oh, I … I wanna get married! You know?

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …And it’s just interesting, cause I was pursuing all these things, and all these things came to me. You know? I got a degree in accounting, I had a great job, I got married. And then I really would… I really got everything that I was hoping for with the happiness factor, and I wasn’t happy. I didn’t feel fulfilled. And then like two years into my marriage I lost my job, a great job that I had. And my husband betrayed me and was cheating on me…

Elisa: [whispers] Oh Julie!

Julie: …with somebody that he worked with. And it was devastating.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: I mean it… eh… In my whole…my whole family, no one had ever been divorced. No one had ever gone through something like this. So it was…it just rocked my world.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: And …um… I just remember going through the grocery store and, you know, like What am I here for? You know? I’m in here…

Eryn: Like in a fog?

Julie: …eh… In a fog. Or being at my grandma’s house and just laying on the bed and just the heaviness, like the weight of just imagining what was happening in my home…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Right?

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: Like it was ha… it was horrible.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: It was a horrible time.

Elisa: Thank you for sharing that. Th… I’m so sorry. That is so hard, and that’s the story of so many, oh so many. The betrayal, that …eh… feelings of rejection…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: …And then how did it shape your understanding of God? What happened with the voices inside you during that season?

Julie: You know, of course, at that time I just was so devastated. And I remember like the biggest thing was is I just felt worthless. I felt like I was replaceable…

Eryn: Yeah, and disposable…

Julie: Yeah. Like I just felt like What am I here for? Like wh…why…why would … Why did he even marry me? You know, why? Heh…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: I had a lot of questions. And it really caused me a lot of rebellion, because he was a Christian…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …and I went through all of this.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …And I don’t, you know, you…you enter into marriage thinking this is for life…

Eryn: Yes.

Julie: …And these kind of things – I don’t know, you just feel invincible. Well, …eh… you’re supposed to enter into marriage thinking this is for life. Right?

Eryn: Yes.

Elisa: Yes.

Julie: So when that happens, it’s just like it… Yeah, it was really, really, really hard. And so …um… I just felt broken and rebellious. And I really kind of rebelled against everything. I rebelled against everybody, and I…I was angry God.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Mm. Yeah.

Julie: …cause I didn’t understand…

Eryn: Yeah. I identify with that so much. That’s a lot of my testimony.

Julie: Mm.

Eryn: I even identify with becoming self-sufficient, you know, it’s like…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …self-sufficiency, it’s like operating in my own strength. Everything was going what I thought was great, and then an implosion happens. And then everything that really you’ve been suppressing, but you thought had under control, shows itself. And it shows all of the roots that are going on in your heart. And when I went through… I went through a divorce. And when I went through that, all of the things I had … all the lies that I’d believed, I didn’t even realize I had so many.

Elisa: Hm.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah!

Eryn: I didn’t really … [laughter] … feel like … thought I was …

Elisa: Talk about voices, yeah.

Eryn: Yes, it’s a… so many voices that came up. And the rebellion, the anger, I think … I always share that the Lord wooed me back into learning more about who He was and how He loved me and saw me. His invitation was allowing me to be angry…

Julie: Mm.

Eryn: …And I think that we don’t give ourselves permission to just be angry too…

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: …And it sounds like that’s part of your story…

Julie: Yeah, very much so…

Eryn: …_______ there was so much anger…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: And then just even when you said that – the self-sufficiency – like…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …I just remember that!

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Like I remember that like Oh, I am going to go out, and I am just going to work out…

Eryn: Yes.

Julie: …I’m gonna lose weight! I’m going to get in shape. I’m gonna… you know…

Elisa: He’s going to be so sorry!

Julie: Yeah!

Eryn: Yes!

Julie: …eh… You know? So…um… you know…

Eryn: Sure.

Julie: …you just feel like, yeah, just that rebellion and that I’m gonna fix this. I’m gonna, you know, save myself for somebody that’s going to love me. And…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …all of those things.

Eryn: So what happened after the moments of rebellion?

Julie: Yeah. I feel like God placed a couple of people in my…in my path at that time.

Eryn: He’s so good at that. [Laughing]

Julie: He is so good at that. I’m so grateful. And they were …um… Jesus to me. Right? Like they… they reminded me of my mom. Right? They reminded me of my mom and her zealous spirit for Jesus.

Elisa: And she was still in your life. She was still alive during this time.

Julie: She was still alive during this time. But because I was in my rebellion…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …I kind of like crossed Mom off…

Eryn: Uh huh.

Julie: Right?

Elisa: Wow, Julie! So God goes…

Julie: …uh…

Elisa: …I can still bring her close…

[Laughter]

Julie: Yeah. And I was…I was living at home at the time…

Elisa: Oh wow!

Julie: …And I just… because I was angry, I don’t know, I just kind of pushed Mom away…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …which was hard for our relationship at the time.

Eryn: Sure. How old were you at this time? I’m just curious.

Julie: Yeah, I was only 26…

Eryn: Okay.

Julie: …So I’d only been married a couple years. And …um… but these … One of the people that was in my life at the time was my…my ex-husband’s sister…

Eryn: Oh.

Julie: …And she came to know Christ at the time.

Elisa: Oh wow!

Julie: And she had done a one-eighty, and she was so on fire …

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: …for Jesus! And I kept wanting to just, you know, cry in my milk about what had happened…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …and talk …eh… at things about…about life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: And she just kept pointing me back … Let’s … What does the Bible say? Let’s look in the Scriptures….

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …You know, and so… Yeah, between her and another person, I just really …um… started to want that again.

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: I wanted the Lord. And I always had … like I said, I had Him…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …but I hadn’t fully surrendered to Jesus.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …um… I once heard… I think it was Anne Graham Lotz talked about, like, you can look at your life as if it’s a home. And have you given the Lord every single room…

Eryn: Mm!

Julie: …of your life?

Elisa: Oh, there’s something. Yeah, right.

[Laughter]

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: Yeah, He can have certain rooms, but…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …certain ones are mine.

Julie: Yesssssss…

Eryn: Certain doors are closed…

Elisa: Yeah, locked.

Eryn: …to walk in.

Julie: That’s right.

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie: That’s right. And there were a lot of doors that were closed in my life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Even as I was growing up, I wanted my own success.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: I didn’t want to give God every room…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: You know? I wanted to kinda hold some to myself…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …and control it myself. So through the journey of watching these friends and seeing the way they lived their life with Jesus, it brought me to the place where I wanted that full surrender, where I wanted to say Okay, God, You can have every single room. And if that means I’m single for the rest of my life, if that means…

Eryn: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Julie: …I don’t have kids, it…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …I will give you everything.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: What changes after we surrender? I mean I… I think a lot of us can touch a point. But, you know, from your perspective, Julie – and this is something I really want to highlight. You know you talked about how your mom watched stories… programs that had stories of Jesus on TV, and that’s how she came to give her life to God. And now you produce stories…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …of people who come to know Jesus…

Julie: It’s amazing!

Elisa: It is amazing!

Eryn: That’s full circle.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: So beautiful!

Elisa: Yeah. So I want to hear about that. And do you see maybe a universal process or some similarities in our journeys, as we come to know God and we push against certain elements? Well use your…your metaphor of the house, you know, with the rooms. How do we come to the place where we offer God entrance into every room? What does that look like? And what’s the difference before and after?

Julie: Mm. Yeah. Because the first twenty…almost twenty years of my life, I…I wasn’t willing…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …I wasn’t willing to give Him every room. And my mom and I would have conversations about that, you know. Mom would say, “You know, you’ve … you have a hundred percent of the Holy Spirit in your life, but does the Holy Spirit have a hundred percent of you?”

Elisa: Wow!

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: …And I’d say, “No, but I’m doing good, Mom.” [Laughing]… You know what I mean? I said, “You know I know I’m going to heaven. I…you know and I…eh… but I still have my own life to live” kind of feeling. And … and so as I went on with my life and …um… And, again, I was pursuing the worldly things, and I seemed to be happy, and it…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …seemed… Everything seemed to be going well.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: So I think this is one of the good things that we can pull out of the hardships of life.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: When we get to that place of broken. I mean I was utterly broken, and it brought me to that place where I knew…I knew about giving Him everything…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …because my mom… I mean

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …my mom, this…this …

Eryn: Right.

Julie: …woman of moxie, like I knew…

Eryn: Yes.

Julie: …what that meant…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …but I just didn’t want to do it.

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: But then when I started to see other people, in my brokenness, giving their lives, their whole lives to Jesu. And I saw the fruit of it, the peace they had, the joy they had that I didn’t get from

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …all of the other things in my life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …from all the things I had pursued, from the great job to the husband where we were traveling all over the place and…and having a supposedly wonderful life…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …They had that, and I wanted it. And I was… I really got to that place of being willing. And I think of…a lot of it, too, was just I believe a lot of the choices that I had made … um… I had to entrust myself with my choices, cause I saw that …

Eryn: It led you to…

Julie: …my choice…

Eryn: …a place that…

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: …ended up feeling like failure or feeling like … or experiencing brokenness…

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: …to the rock bottom.

Julie: Yeah.

[Music]

Eryn: And when we come back, Julie will tell us about the influence her mom had on her by being a strong woman of moxie. Not only does she always express her love for God, but she also invited a stranger over for dinner while waiting in line at a store. All of this and more is up next on God Hears Her.

[Music]

Elisa: Thanks for listening to this God Hears Her podcast. Eryn and I love sharing this space with you. And you know what? We want to invite you to become an even bigger part of our God Hears Her community. Just sign up for our weekly email newsletter. We’ll keep you updated on new podcasts, encouraging blog posts, exciting new products, so much. Just go to godhearsher.org and sign up today. That’s godhearsher-dot-o.r.g. Now back to the show.

Elisa: You’re talking so much about your mom, which I love this, an…and I know you just a little bit, Julie. And your relationship with your mom has been very, very special through your life. And I think it’s… it still shapes you, as…as I know you. Maybe explain even how your mom has shaped your adulthood projects, how Jesus has used her in her relationship with God to shape what you’re being called to now.

Julie: It’s interesting how, you know, we live and then we rebel, and…and…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …oftentimes, and then we come back. And then it’s like a … I had a deepened appreciation for my mom after all these things when I came back to Jesus. And when I look back, she shaped me in so many ways. Just a…just one quick story about Mom. Here I am a young girl. We’re in this little drug store, and my mom whispers to me. She says, “Oh my goodness! There is a person in back of us right now.” She had been praying, and the Lord had ch…told her, had…had shown her to invite this woman who owned the restaurant in our little town to her house. But Mom didn’t know her. She just, you know, had seen her at the restaurant.

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: And Mom said, “That woman is in back of us in line.” She says, “I just have not been faithful to invite her to our house.”

Elisa: Oh my gosh!

Julie: “But here she is in back of us in line.” She says, “I think that I need to invite her over right now to our house for dinner.” And I’m like, “Okay, Mom.”

Elisa: Oh!

Eryn: Aw!

Julie: _______ little girl, you’re wide-eyed. You’re kind of watching…

Elisa: Weird mom, yeah.

Julie: …your mom. Right?

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: So she invited her over to dinner. And lo and behold, this…this woman that owned the restaurant, the town restaurant, came to our house for dinner. And Mom is such a _______ [seller?] for Jesus, because God made such a difference in her life, so she’s sharing her relationship with Christ and told…

Eryn: No.

Julie: …and told her all about Jesus. And she led her to the Lord that day!

Eryn: Oh wow!

Elisa: Oh good grief!

Julie: That day!

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: It was only like – I don’t know – a month later, she was diagnosed with cancer…

Eryn: Wow!

Elisa: Oh my!

Julie: …and she passed away.

Elisa and Eryn: [Both gasp]

Elisa: This woman?

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: Oh my gosh!

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: Wow! That gives me chills.

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: So you watched your mom’s … you call it being zealous, which I love that word. It’s so enthusiastic. But you watched her really be obedient too…

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: …and take life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …super intensely, earnestly… yeah?

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: And that shaped you.

Julie: Oh my goodness! It shaped me so much. And I took it for granted what I had in her, because that’s…that’s how she lived her life all the time.

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: I’d have friends over from high school, from, you know, junior high. Mom was always sharing about Jesus.

Elisa: Aw.

Julie: She prayed with I don’t know how many of my friends.

Eryn: Awww!

Julie: I mean we go to a water park. There’s Mom sitting up… My brother and I are playing in the water. There’s Mom sitting on the bench, witness and sharing Jesus with the woman on the bench.

Elisa: Did that ever embarrass you?

Eryn: Oh, I love it!

Julie: You know I think, at different point in times, it did. You know when you’re a…

Eryn: It probably became so normalized…

Julie: …teenager, and you’re… [laughing]

Eryn: …that you’re just like it just is…that’s what it is!

Elisa: Just keeping it real, but that’s Mom! Yeah.

Julie: But, you know, at the same time, I think all my friends loved her…

Elisa: Uh-huh.

Julie: They’re like, “I wish I had a mom like you!” Like they…

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: …just loved my mom.

Eryn: Aw!

Julie: …you know? And so, yeah, it was beautiful.

Elisa: And so how now are you seeing even her influence on you and what you’re doing?

Julie: Yeah. Yeah. I’m looking for women of moxie. Right? _______ How do you say moxie?

Elisa: Yeah. What is that?

Julie: Moxie means determination and courage.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: So when I look at somebody that’s a woman of moxie, I think of somebody that’s determined to follow Jesus with all their heart, that has the courage – because sometimes He calls us to do things …

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …oof! … that we maybe don’t want to do, that we’re not comfortable with. I don’t know. He just takes us in directions that are not…

Elisa: Sure, they’re unexpected…

Julie: …something that we might choose.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: Especially, I think, too, as I think about finishing well. And what does that look like to finish well…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …with Jesus? And I think, too, with all the things that are happening in our world today…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …all the voices that are speaking at us so loudly. We have social media. We have the news. We have…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …friends. We have family. We have so many voices. We have our own self-doubt, self-condemnation. All these voices. But what does it look like to follow the Voice that matters? Jesus. What does it look like to listen to His voice? And I think that’s one of the other things that Mom taught me was: How do you listen? How do you listen to the Spirit working in your life? You know … um… She taught me how to discern that, how to discern God’s voice.

Elisa: Can you give us an example maybe … maybe in history…um… She could maybe be living or dead, but … of a woman that you would say “That’s a moxie woman?” So that we can kinda, you know, put a…put a face on this. And I’m sure everyday women are women of moxie. It doesn’t have to just be famous people, but for…for those of us who are trying to getting a handhold on this concept…

Julie: Mm. I think of … The first person that comes to mind is Corrie ten Boom…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

[Both speaking simultaneously here] _______

Julie: Did you?

Elisa: That’s funny. Yes, I did…

Julie: Yes! A heroine…

Elisa: …while you were talking.

Julie: …of the faith. Right?

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …um… Going through the concentration camps…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …and re…remaining resilient. And I even think about her sister Betsie who died…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …in the concentration camp.

Elisa: Yes, she was…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …I was thinking about like Harriet Tubman, you know…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Yes!

Elisa: …with the Underground Railroad and, you know, …eh… So people are coming to mind, and we can’t interview those. …ss… But that helps me think about Oh, that’s what you’re talking about. And your sweet mom is now with Jesus.

Julie: Yes, she is.

Elisa: And you walked through that very painful journey of relinquishing her, Julie…

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: But how does her moxie-ness for Jesus – is that…is that a word? Okay. How …

[Speaking simultaneously]

Eryn: Moxie-ness for Jesus?

Julie: I have moxie-ness for…

Elisa: Moxie-ness for Jesus.

[Laughter]

Elisa: Moxie-ness for the man of God. You know how does that…how does that still influence you?

Julie: It’s been interesting, Elisa, because especially … eh… Before you even answer that question about how it influences me, just how God has been so faithful to be with me, because it was heartbreaking cause I lost my mom two years ago. And, again, as you’ve seen, she’s been such a huge influence, and – gosh – I miss her so much. But, at the time, she was re-diagnosed with cancer, and so we didn’t know how long we would have with Mom. And at the time, the Lord put me on a project – heh heh – with Elisa.

Elisa: That’s right! [Laughing] That’s right. You taught me so much in that season, Julie, you did – about your faith, about how seriously you took it, and how much you could lean into Jesus’s power.

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: Well, it was such a blessing because we were working on The Prayer Coin…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: And it was, you know … um… so powerful, because you talked about Jesus in the Garden…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …And His going back and forth between abandon and being honest. Honesty with God and abandoning His will to the Father’s will.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: And I still have the coin, and I still use the coin because, I mean, one side says “Abandon.” The other side says “Honest.” And it was just such a…um… a way that God met me in that place, because I was being honest: Lord, I want my mom to live to be a hundred. Lord, my mom… What am I going to do without her? I…I come to her with so many things. We pray together. We…we witness together. All these things. What am I going to do without my mom? And … and then I would slowly turn the coin back over and say, Okay, Lord. Not my will, but Yours be done. But then I’d flip back over … [Laughter] …

Elisa: And be honest…

Eryn: Lord, I want her to be a hundred! Let’s keep this here.

Julie: Yeah.

[Laughter]

Julie: So, anyway, that’s just an example of how God met me in that place…um… to eventually get to the place where I was able to release her to Jesus.

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: …She passed away in December of 2018.

Elisa: Mm. Well, you know, there’s another – if you will – you know the path of surrender, you know, that God’s brought you to. Your…your mom’s example of moxie-ness …

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: …you know this courage. You defined it as courage that brings about determination, or determination that brings about courage. You know?

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …She modeled that for you. And so, even in her passing, you know, as you chose to pray like Jesus, you know, both honestly and with abandon, you know, God met you in that. Doggone it, Eryn, …eh… there’s just always this thing of surrender! [Laughing]

Eryn: Ah! And waiting. Surrender and waiting…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …Waiting while we surrender. [Laughing]

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: But something that I wanted to touch on, too, was I knew about you. I knew about this word “moxie.” I knew about this word being meaningful to you, and I was like I don’t think I know what moxie is. So I went to Google, and I just Googled “moxie definition.”

Elisa: Good job!

Eryn: …And it was what you said, the…um… determination. And what…and so then I was like I want to click in a little further. And what I loved – one of these …uh… sentences to this word, it says: “It takes determination to pull up roots and go to a land where the culture and the language are totally foreign.”

Elisa: I’m thinking of the woman, Ruth, in Scripture. She’s kind of a moxie woman.

Eryn: Yeah, she…

Julie: Yeah!

Eryn: …she was.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: How many of us have done that…

Julie: Hm…

Eryn: …whether it’s…

Julie: I love that.

Eryn: …geographically, emotionally…

Elisa: Mm!

Eryn: …in our walk with the Lord?

Elisa: Mm. Mm. Eryn. Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …And that’s what your journey is. You were in a – nother land and…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: …of self-sufficiency.

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: And to learn how to live in a dependency with the Lord is a ta…completely different land.

Elisa: That’s so good.

Julie: Yes! That is excellent…

Eryn: I _______…

Julie: …That’s ex…so exactly what I’ve experienced.

Eryn: [laughing] That is a woman of moxie, is…

Julie: Yes!

Eryn: …is pulling up roots to go to someplace that is completely foreign, and being able to see the Lord …

Julie: Mmm.

Eryn: …bring her through that and trust in Him in that and surrender…

Julie: Mmm.

Elisa: Snap! There it is again…

Eryn: Snap! There it is… [laughter]…

Elisa: But that’s awesome, Eryn. I love how you’ve modernized that. See, this is what happens with younger women… [laughter] … She’s…

Eryn: Love it!

Elisa: …modernized it, you know, and…

[Laughter]

Elisa: …metaphorized it.

Eryn: Metaphorized! Is that a word?

Elisa: Oh yeah. It is now, yeah. That…that really makes sense. And so all of us who find ourselves in a … in a period of uprooted-ness…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: Mm. That is really our call…eh… is to be willing to pick up those roots, as God directs, and allow Him to replant us in places that please Him, where He is going to release what He’s placed in us…

Julie: Mmm.

Elisa: …as we surrender. You know that…that part again…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …but you know…

Julie: And that is so great that you bring that up, too, because it just gives that whole visual to me. But, you know, it was a whole new world for me. Okay, now, twenty years as a believer, and now…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …all of a sudden, I’m… I’ve been uprooted, because now I’m completely gonna…I’m gonna li… What does it look like…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …to now live dependent on the Lord…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …which is completely different. You know I made Him my Savior before, and now it’s like He’s my Lord…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …He’s got everything. And so I remember like my first big trial. And God, in His graciousness, I did get remarried. And my husband and I have been married … We’ve been married now for 25 years.

Eryn: Oh…

Julie: Praise God!

Eryn: …so… Wow!

Elisa: Amazing!

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: …That’s so beautiful!

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: But we were maybe five years into our marriage, and we struggled with wanting to have kids. We struggled with infertility. And so this was a huge, huge…um… time for us. And so what does that look like to depend on God and to not like… eh… I wanted, you know, we… We went every…did everything we could to try to do, in our own strength…

Elisa: To get pregnant.

Julie: To get pregnant…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …Right? And we went through fertility testing and those kind of things. And that can be really hard for those that struggle with infertility, because there’s so many… so many choices that you can do to …

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …move forward…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: So it took a lot of prayer, because it’s like Okay, this is about dependency…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: … Lord, this is what I want. This is what we want, and we can keep going. Or how far do we go, Lord? Show us how far we want us to go and how… When do we just stop and just trust You, and maybe trust You that our…the plan is to not have children? So that was a big deal. And so we…we prayed that through and both at the same time, both sensed God calling us to stop with all of the fertility treatments and leave it in God’s hands. And we never had children.

Eryn: Mm.

Elisa: You know we hear these stories all the time, Julie. And, you know, usually the story has ended, “I got pregnant.” You know? Or “then we got called that we’re going to be a, you know, our number’s up for adoption.” And you just shared the other side, and thank you for that. You know…eh… There’s that surrender again. What has that been like for yall?

Julie: I remember when we first made that decision…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …and really sensed God saying that. I was a little bit, like, scared because I thought Well, what if ten years go by and we regret? What if… You know, all the what-ifs…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …but continued to pray and continued to have peace about it. And as we’ve done that, it’s been interesting, because soon after I made that decision is when God brought me to Our Daily Bread Ministries.

Elisa: Oh wait! You’re kidding?

Julie: Yeah…

Elisa: How ‘bout that?

Julie: Yeah. And so … And it was within that year God had me go on my first shoot to Israel, which I’d never been out of the country before.

Elisa: Mm. Mm.

Julie: And I was scared to travel, so I had to like completely release that to Him as well…

Eryn: Yes…

Julie: …Right?

Eryn: …that is pulling up your roots and going somewhere…

Julie: Right? [Laughing]

[All speaking simultaneously]

Eryn: …to another country…

Julie: I mean I was…

Eryn: I know…

Elisa: _______

Julie: …I was scared _______…

Eryn: …another culture, yes…

Julie: …to travel and to be on a plane, and especially to go to the Middle East. But I’m like Okay, Jesus, open my hands. And I followed Him, and I went to Israel. And here I am in the middle of the Judean wilderness, and the person that we had on the program at the time was Shannon Wexelberg. And she had written her music out of her struggle of infertility…

Elisa: Oh boy!

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: And so here we are in the Judean wilderness, worshiping Jesus with her music…

Eryn: Oh!

Julie: …written out of her pain of infertility. And God was showing me: This is your path. I’m with you in it. At the same wilderness that He wrestled with … Right?

Eryn: Aw.

Julie: It was beautiful.

Eryn: You can’t toss that up to just being ironic. It’s just so…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: …intentional. In those moments, you just feel so loved. Mm. There’s just no way to put words to experiencing something like that, of how I would imagine it meant to you.

Julie: Yeah. Yeah, it was amazing.

Eryn: But I would imagine just there was so much grief, even, like lamenting…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …even if you knew that it was confident that that was what the Lord was going to bring you in and through. There still was so much lamenting, I would imagine?

Julie: Yeah. And there’s just that whole unfulfilled longing…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …you know?

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …um… that still …

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …to this day. A lot of my friends now, their…their daughters, their sons are either graduating from college or getting married. And …eh… it’s painful still. You know? It’s that… it’s … it’s like holding your grief in. …eh… I have a friend that says, “you know your grief and joy can coexist at the same time.” And I think almost sometimes that, when we are grievous in different areas, like this unfulfilled longing to have children, it gives a more sensitivity to others. And then that joy is almost like this broken, beautiful joy that can come out. You know we were just at a wedding not too long ago with one of the spiritual daughters from church. And, you know, I saw her physical parents there, and it just – oh! – made me sad…

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Julie: …Like Oh, I wish…I wish we had the physical kids, but then, at the same time, it makes… I was sharing with another one of the spiritual daughters that I have at that wedding. And I just… oh, I just love on these girls…

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: …because I appreciate them all the more because I don’t have the physical daughters. And so… I don’t know. There’s just a beauty in the brokenness…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: I think it’s really important to … Thanks for being honest with that, because following God, surrendering, doesn’t always mean we get everything we want…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …I mean often we find the beauty in the broken. We find, you know, something we didn’t expect or weren’t looking forward to, and God will redeem it and help us to embrace it. But that’s just real life.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …Thank you for being straight up, because this unfulfilled longing you’re talking about can go hand in hand with the very best of God’s fulfilled blessings in our lives as well.

Eryn: Yeah. That’s so true. And I think it’s just beautiful to give yourself permission to like …

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …or grace, cause I think even years… years and years and years later, you can still grieve. It may just look a little different.

Julie: Yeah. And I think there’s just som… I think even just the lament is so important. Like when you look at the Psalms, and you see the psalmist grieving things or afraid or all these things. But then coming back at the end…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …most oftentimes, to the goodness of God. …um… But I love to journal, and I have a lot of journals …

Elisa: Awesome!

Julie: …at home of like just sharing kind of back to the “honest.” You know, being honest with God, and when I have the pain, you know? Like when I was at the wedding, I … I journaled that night.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …You know, Lord, this was hard. You know it’s another…another sad day for me. But the walk with Jesus – you know, I…I…I’m just so grateful for Who He is and how He’s with me in those moments. In those moments, I just feel like His nearness, you know? …um… I…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …don’t know how else to explain, but just I’m sure you’ve experienced that – His nearness in those broken places.

Elisa: [whispers] Yeah.

Julie: …And it’s…

Elisa: And if we don’t touch them…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …You know if we don’t crack them open and allow Him to be present and be honest with Him, you know, I’m not sure we can experience how close He really wants to be. So that, too, takes moxie. That, too, takes kind of a determined courage of, you know …eh… If I go into this broken spot, I’m going to feel it…

Eryn: Yes.

Elisa: Oooh!

Julie: Yesss…

Elisa: …you know?

Julie: Yes!

Elisa: But if I go into this broken spot and embrace it and grieve it and am honest about it and lament it, …

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: …then He can join me there. And that’s where we need Him…

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: …is in that.

Eryn: That’s the intimacy that we deeply long for, that we cannot find anywhere else…

Julie: Yeah, yeah…

Eryn: …but in pain.

Julie: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: Julie, are…are you comfortable calling yourself a woman of moxie? Or nodding that you … [Laughter] …

Julie: Oh, I pray for that. I want that.

Elisa: I think you are that.

Julie: Mmm.

Elisa: And…and maybe… Why do you think we might be uncomfortable self-labeling? Like it may be okay with you for me to say, “Julie, you’ve got moxie,” or “Eryn, you’ve got moxie.” But wh…why do we resist going Yeah, I got moxie! [Laughter] …

Julie: Yeah! Yeah! I’m a moxie woman! Yeah.

Eryn: I mean I don’t know. I have no problem saying that I’m a woman of moxie. Hahaha! [Laughing] Just kidding. I’m so humble! [Laughter]

Elisa: Well, you know what? Honestly, are you comfortable saying, you know, you’re a…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: Yes. I think because I’m able to speak from a space of healing and redemption and …um… seeing … Like I…I look at the…the woman that I was before, the self-sufficient, Lord kind of present kind… I mean He was always present, but I just… His voice was dim because I was consuming other voices …uh… what we were saying earlier. I think because I look at her, and I look at her with compassion. And then I look at the grit that was developed in me and the value that the Lord continued to remind me that I have, that He wants all of His daughters to see …

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: …that we have courage and determination because of who He is through us and in us. I mean we gain strength through Him being in us. And He… I mean my story… He just did miraculous things. I would not want to deny that, and so that would make me absolutely a woman of moxie.

Elisa: Is that it, Julie? Is that it?

Julie: That’s it. I mean you were right on it when you said that determination to live life in His strength…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …and not your own strength, to have that courage that comes from that surrender to Him so that He can fill us…

Elisa: Yes.

Julie: …We can’t conjure it up on our own. It’s the…back to that surrender again…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …Jesus, take the wheel…

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: So, Julie, now…now you get to answer again. [Laughter] Are…are you a woman of moxie?

Julie: Yes…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …yes, I am. Yes, because that’s what I want. I want to surrender…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …to Him. I want Him to…to shine through. I want to be like my mom. Right? I want to go and share. And…and that’s the thing, now that Mom is gone, that’s been interesting, because as I’ve reflected the last two years since she’s passed. It’s like my heart is all the more for mentorship. And I don’t have physical children, but the Lord has shown me He’s given me spiritual children. And so I want to pass on the baton of the moxie I witnessed in my mom my whole life growing up, the moxie that I’ve been experiencing. I just want others to know that. I want them to know that love the Lord has for them and to experience a deeper walk with Jesus. It’s beautiful.

[Music]

Eryn: It is so encouraging to hear how God worked in Julie’s life, even when she didn’t get what she was praying for. She’s so inspiring, as her own woman of moxie, for being vulnerable with us and remaining faithful even when her prayers were not answered in the way she wanted them to be.

Elisa: I really agree, Eryn. I know I’ve had my own share of unanswered prayers, but God still shows up in the most unexpected ways. And we are so thankful for the chance to chat with Julie.

Eryn: Yes. Now it’s time to go out and be a woman of moxie.

Elisa: Before we close out today’s episode of God Hears Her, we want to remind you that the show notes are available in the podcast description. The show notes not only contain the talking points for today’s episode, but they also have links to connect with Eryn and me on social. Or you can visit our website at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.o.r.g.

Eryn: Thank you for joining us. And don’t forget, friends. God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[Music]

Elisa: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Mary Jo Clark, Daniel Ryan Day, and Jade Gustafson. Today we also want to recognize Nicole and Peggy for their help in creating and promoting the God Hears Her podcast. Thanks, guys.

[ODB theme music]

Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.