Light Breaking Through

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 121 – Light Breaking Through with Julie Thomas

Elisa Morgan & Eryn Eddy and Julie Thomas

Julie: When I was going through, in the thick of the depression, I would close every window, every drape in the house, and I would pin it to the wall and…or tape it down so the light didn’t even creep in when it was daytime.

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: That’s how much light scared me. The outside scared me. And so that morning at about five — I’m not exactly sure of the exact time, but I knew there was sunlight, and sunlight crept into the room.

[Theme music]

Intro: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.

Elisa: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.

Eryn: And I’m Eryn Eddy. Fear is such an overwhelming feeling. It can make us run and hide, freeze in place, or completely shut down our personality.

Elisa: For Julie Thomas, fear became a constant companion after the birth of her second son. Her diagnosis of postpartum depression brought with it a deep darkness that caused her to block out the light in every way possible.

Eryn: Julie is a wife, a mother of two, life coach, and author. The release of her novel Hope Inside Out, and her willingness to be open and transparent, has allowed her to find healing for herself and to help others do the same.

Elisa: Join us on this episode of God Hears Her, as we learn about Julie’s big life change and her path of healing.

Julie: My upbringing was in the Middle East in a Gulf nation. It’s called Kuwait. Probably heard of it during the big war in the 1990s. But that’s where I grew up, and I moved here after I met my husband. And I’ve been here for twenty-plus years now…

Elisa: And you’re meaning Dallas? Or do you mean…

Julie: Mm-hmm. Dallas…

Elisa: …the United States?

Julie: …and, yeah, United States…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …but Dallas, in general, and have been here ever since. This is…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …this is home now.

Elisa: So tell everybody. What did you think your life would look like, compared to what it does look like…

Julie: Oh…

Elisa: …I mean, growing up, did you imagine?

Julie: No. Totally different. I was a journalist, and I wanted to go down the whole journalism route.

Eryn: Wow.

Julie: …Got my master’s in journalism and communications, moved here, got my doctorate in journalism and information as well…

Elisa: So you’re serious about his topic?

Julie: Yes…

Elisa: Goodness, yeah.

Julie: …I was, but my story… it starts right at the same month that I got my diploma for my doctorate in hand, and the diagnosis for postpartum the very same month.

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: So it totally changed my dreams, my route. Never imagined being where I am now, you know. I was thinking I’d be teaching somewhere, or more in the academic arena, but totally took a detour. Life took a detour.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Take us into that then, you know. What was your life like as you were getting your PhD? You’re married now, you’re living in the…

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: …Dallas area…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …And what’s your life like?

Julie: Well…uh… We were plugged into our church. I had my older son when I was in my second year of my PhD. And he comes along, and I’m, you know, raising him and doing school at the same time…

Elisa: That’s a lot.

Julie: …He was an easy baby, so I was able to still do school, manage home, and everything. But then I got pregnant with the second son, and the pregnancy was fine; but once the delivery happened and I came home, it was a different person that walked in through the doors and a different…

Eryn: Wow.

Julie: …a totally different experience of bringing the baby home. It was nothing like the first one. It was …uh… something that I wasn’t prepared for.

Elisa: So immediately there was such a difference. What did you notice? What were your symptoms, and did you even …

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …recognize them as symptoms, I mean at first?

Julie: Well, no…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …No, because everything is just happening. And …uh… in my case, once we brought the baby home, it started to… It literally happened in my head, so there’s a reality of being a new mom with a baby and a 2-1/2-year old child. A few months before he turned 3 was when his brother was born. And so I had the little ones and home, and I’m still in my final semester of grad school. And then I come home, and my reality and my head are in two different places. And this is the best I can explain: My head started to be in a different world where I was in… still in the hospital. I’m still in the hospital where I had the baby. I’m still seeing the hallways. I’m still seeing the postpartum floor. And I am frantically pacing up and down the hallway. And I’m trying to look for something — I’m not sure what it is at that moment, but I’m … When I’m pacing, I’ll come across like an empty baby cart. And this is all in my head. This is not in front of my eyes…

Elisa: Because you’re actually at home?

Julie: I’m home with the baby in my arms…

Elisa: Almost like hallucinating or… yeah, okay…

Julie: Exactly…

Elisa: Okay.

Julie: …Yeah, totally different disconnect from reality. And I started to… I see the empty baby cart, and then this feeling of a loss, like I lost the baby. The baby’s not in there.

Eryn: Oh!

Julie: And then I would hold the one that’s in my arms, healthy, and just weep like he’s gone…

Elisa: Oh!

Eryn: Aww…

Julie: It was so hard to explain to anybody, to my husband, to myself for…

Eryn: I’m sure. Right! You’re like What is happening?

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: It’s … this should not be happening coming home with a newborn…

Julie: Yes…

Eryn: Right.

Julie: …Yes. So it was just so hard to explain to anybody. I had two realities, because the other one was as real to me as the reality that I was in. So…

Elisa: Feeding the baby and living in your home and taking care of your 2-1/2-year-old and…

Julie: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Elisa: … Man, Julie, how did you begin to figure out that something was off?

Julie: Honestly, because I was so in it… Here with two kids, trying to wrap up grad school, that life, and then this life in my head, and trying to get everything done in the house. I wasn’t able to pull away and figure out What is going on? I didn’t… I couldn’t even ask myself that question because that became so much of my reality that I… I really didn’t have or even think of pulling away and asking myself What’s going on? All I knew is I was different. My husband and I started to fight more and… because, you know, he’s not understanding where I’m coming from, because I couldn’t tell him this. I didn’t tell him this because it sounds like I’m insane…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …And so my head is at odds with me, and… and then there’s the odds now happening in the family life. And everything just started to clash and just brought so much chaos in my head and in my life.

Eryn: What was the breaking point for you, when you started to shed light on what was going on in what you were seeing and feeling?

Julie: One of the big ones that started to sh…manifest in my life was when the day would end, and it’s nighttime. Everything is quiet, and you become quiet, and you’re settled down. You’re not busy with the bustle of taking care of the kids. And what happens is this thing in my head starts to speed up, and I’m guessing it had to do with the anxiety. Like it’s on fast forward, and I had zero control over this fast-forward button. There was no way I could pull the remote from it and press pause or slow down. It just kept pacing, and the pacing got harder. I’m searching for a baby. It got so bad that I would just spring out of the bed, like at 2 or 3 in the morning and just run out the door, because… get away from this…

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: …eh… I really don’t know how I did all that, like it just wasn’t reality — reality and not reality at the same… It was really, really conflicting; and all I remember is it would get so overwhelming that I would just spring out of bed and just run. And my husband would have no warning or anything, and neither would I. And I’d be barefoot, pajamas, everything…

Eryn: Ah!

Julie: …out on the street. And he would like… we had the babies, so he had to pack them up and come looking for me. And …uh… I would run till energy caved, you know, till that…

Elisa: Wow.

Julie: …rage or whatever was going through my head would give me enough energy to just keep running like a mad person and then stop, because I had no more energy left. So that’s what was going on, and that’s one of the biggest …oh, what is going on?… And …uh… we still… We didn’t do anything about it because we were not sure, again, to step away and go What is this? We…we were lost, but a friend of ours had been in our life for a whole year before I had this baby, and they knew I was different. And they had gone through the experience, and he asked my husband to, you know… “I would go see a doctor to make sure, cause I think she might be going through a postpartum, because she’s not the same person…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …that we knew.”

Eryn: Wow.

Julie: … So that motivated us to go see the doctor, and it was definitely a … a immediate diagnosis…

Elisa: How long…

Julie: …postpartum…

Elisa: …did this go on, Julie?

Julie: The whole duration of depression, in general, lasted six years…

Elisa: Oh! Wow!

Julie: Postpartum was supposed to be like ending in a year, at least that’s what the usual shelf life is. But mine just… I still remember when my baby, the youngest one — he’s much older now. When he was 3, I would still weep. I would still hold him when he was asleep and weep and not know what’s going on. And, like I said, he’s still in my arms, and I would just weep like …uh… So I’m guessing that postpartum went… at least some traces of it continued into that timeframe. But depression, as a whole, almost six years.

Elisa: Mmm! What a toll this has to have taken. Tell us, how did you come to know God? An…and what was your relationship with God like before it? During… you know even as you continued?

Julie: Well, I grew up in the church, so my whole life… everybody in the family’s been a Christian. And, you know, that’s all I’ve known. So I didn’t know anything besides the Christian faith and to do the right things, like go to church and do your Bible reading and your prayers. You know I had all that down, but this comes along, and this opens up a whole new window of communication with God for me, in terms of… First it was Help me, help me, help me, help me get out. Please help me get out. Please help me get out… like you know fighting Him to let me get out of this as much as I could. And then it went from there to rage…

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: … anger at God. It went to me even making vows to myself, shaking my first at heaven and saying “I’m never going to raise my boys to know You…”

Eryn: Wow!

Julie: …That kind of rage and anger against…

Elisa: It sounds like…

Julie: …the Lord…

Elisa: …you felt so abandoned…

Julie: Yes…

Elisa: …so alone…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …from this God that you thought loved you…

Julie: Mm-hmm. Yeah…

Elisa: …and would leave you in this condition.

Julie: I would say that it even opened up my… eh… questioning myself as to where I stood with the Lord, like I…

Eryn: Mm-hmm. I’m sure.

Julie: …don’t think I fully embraced how much He loved me or where His love for me stood till I got to this stage of life…

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: …you know? Like I said, He’s all I knew, so I did everything that is by the books. And I… My parents taught me, my grandparents taught me. I just did everything that they did, and, you know, faithfully went to church, did all that. But when this comes along and, as much as I was angry with God, it took me back to: Did you ever really seek that relationship with Him? And when the rage and everything would die down, and then you’re stuck with you and God again. There’s nobody else in the picture. Nobody else can help me. I was stuck with Him, and it came down to Lord, this is me and You. What do You need me to do from here? And that’s… I feel like a good place in my relationship with the Lord started during this difficult time. I don’t think I would’ve been able to embrace that, or even experience that, if I had stayed where I was. I’d still be doing the right things, most likely. Still sending my kids to Sunday school and going to church and everything, cause that’s all I’ve known; but then where’s the experience with your Creator? Where’s the embracing of that in my life, as I walk through life? Because at the end it’s Him and me. When we stand in front of Him, it’s going to be Him and me. And I didn’t have that, even though I… I love the Lord and accepted Him at a young age and everything, I was lacking that. And I think this opened up that window for me, and as much as it was painful, I am grateful for that revelation of understanding who He is, truly.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: You know what I love about your story, Julie, is that your testimony is showing that our God is so confident in who He is and how He loves and pursues us, that even our anger does not deter Him from us.

Julie: Hm-mnh.

Eryn: In fact, it builds intimacy…

Julie: Yes.

Eryn: …with us. And…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: …that’s what happened in your story. I think so many people that are listening right now, they may be hearing a lot of anger that they’ve stuffed or hid…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: …or are scared to show Him. But He is so confident. He’s so confident in His love for us that even our anger…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: …will not scare Him away. So when your anger would settle down, would you withdraw more? Or would you lean in more, day by day, minute by minute, kind of, with your relationships with God?

Julie: I think, at first, I would feel like I can’t come to Him, because I’ve been so upset and I’ve been so angry. But like I… I always say to people that I share my story with, I always go back to Peter when he said, “Where are we going to go, Lord?” when Jesus asked them, “Are you going to leave Me too?” And he said, “Lord, I have no place else to go. Where are we going to go?” And I always feel that with the Lord, and I was like I have no place else to go. And I went. And I was… always thought, if I shook my first at somebody I know in my life, how bad would that be going even today, most likely? Like when you shake your fist at someone in anger, and …

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …it’s going to be an issue, as much as if the person forgives you or not — doesn’t matter — it’s going to be there…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …And I was still… I was able to go back to Him, and I was able to see how… Like the Word says, “He first loved me.” So it was not because of anything I was doing or not doing, that I was able to go back, “He first loved me,” and He was still there. So even when the anger happened, and I walked away, and I… I came back. It’s not like He left, so He was there. And so I started to build that confidence in my relationship with the Lord, because He loved you first anyway.

Elisa: You know in story after story that we listen to, Eryn, you know whether it’s abuse, or…or maybe it’s in body image issue or an eating disorder, or maybe it’s an incredible season of loneliness, or you… on and on and on. All of the issues that we all have, it floors me that the (quote) “answer” — and I’m using air quotes here — is coming to the realization that God loves me, and there’s nothing I can do about it…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: So there. You know? [Laughing] And…and these crossroads of God wooing us into … well, kind of like marinating in that truth so that…

Julie: Yes.

Elisa: … you know it’s part of our being, and we really can’t shake it off and walk away from it. But how…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: …how He does that in each one of our lives is so personal…

Julie: It’s custom.

Elisa: Yeah!

[Laughter]

Elisa: Julie, take us into the customized path that God led you on to woo you to this truth. And then what kinds of tools did He use in your life? Was it a bippity-boppety-boo Bing! You’re done! Or was it a process? What…was it therapy? What…what worked eventually?

Julie: Well, I wanted the fairy godmother. I wanted the…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …you know the immediate answer, and…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …we were hoping that if we went and got prayed over at different places, that would get that answer, so I wanted the immediate answer. And I kept pushing and asking for that and, you know, frustrated, angry. Still asking Lord, I still trust You. Heal me, heal me, heal me, heal me. And there was no answer to that. And then I was at my church one day, and it was a women’s event, and it was a night of comedy. And, you know, it was packed, and there were games and prizes and a lot of comedy going on. It was… everybody was having fun, and I’m sitting there in the middle of my church. And it’s home, and I know everybody, and I’m feeling like This is not my home. I don’t know anybody here. Nobody knows me. What am I even doing here? I’m feeling like I’m alone, isolated. I’m feeling all these feelings that a person who is sitting next to friends should not be experiencing.

Elisa: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Right. Yeah.

Julie: And it’s like You’re alone. What are you doing here? Nobody here cares. And, you know, Leave! Leave! And that kind of stuff, and endured the night, and I come home and once the little ones were put to bed, I go get into bed. And I still suffered with insomnia at that time, and so I would stay up for most of the night and either read or watch TV. But that night I stayed up, and it was this battle, cause these feelings would not go away — this heaviness, this you’re isolated, you’re alone, you’re… you’re, you know, nobody cares. That feeling would not go away. And when I was going through, in the thick of the depression, I would close every window, every drape in the house, and I would pin it to the wall and… or tape it down so the light didn’t even creep in when it was daytime.

Elisa: Wow!

Julie: That’s how much light scared me. The outside scared me. And so that morning at about five — I’m not exactly sure of the exact time, but I knew there was sunlight, and sunlight crept into the room, somehow, into my bedroom. And when that was coming in, there was this strong, strong, strong dawning on my heart. Like I’ve never heard the voice of the Lord or anything, and I cannot claim that, but this dawning was… You know how you felt in that room, with that many women, sitting among your friends, and you felt alone and isolated and lonely and… There are several others like you, sitting in the dark, in those chairs, and I need you to share your story now…

Eryn: Oh!

Elisa: Mm.

Julie: So, of course, you’re then going, I don’t think I heard the Lord right…

Eryn: You’re like, What’s that? That can’t be me…

[Laughter]

Julie: No, because, you know, I follow women that love the Lord and share the gospel and everything. And, yes, they all have really painful backstories, but then what I’m seeing in front of me is their, you know, their success and what they’re encouraging people with. And I didn’t have any…any of that to offer, so I’m like What place am I coming from? I’m still struggling. I’m still trying to get through day-to-day, still waking up with this dread of not wanting to get through the day. It was like I don’t want to be here today — that kind of feeling every day.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: And so I’m like I can’t share my story. There’s nothing going on to share here besides all this pain and despair. But He started to push me. I… I can’t explain it. It was just a nudge that was light enough and gentle enough to where I knew I had to obey. And it was not like a compulsion, but it was like I have to obey this. It’s coming from such a loving place. I have to obey this. And I started to…started to share in small groups, started to tell people “This is what I’m going through.” And, sure enough, people that I actually knew started to come up and say, “Hey, I didn’t know you were going through this. I am…

Elisa: Ahhh!

Julie: …I am going…” And so …

Elisa: Suddenly you’re not so alone.

Julie: No. That feeling that I experienced for those few hours that night, through the night and through that event, was what everybody else is feeling. And He let me go through that experience, like getting on a ride at a park, and then you get off the ride. So it was like that ride I was on, and I experienced everything people actually go through. And when I got off the ride, and I started to share my story, I still… I have a clear memory of a friend of mine that came forward and said, “This is what I’m going through as well.” And we were… I started to meet people at coffee shops and share my story and hear theirs back, and I found a lot of healing in that. And I always tell people that I feel like God healed me. And I have this pie chart of different avenues He used to heal me, and one of them was sitting face to face with people that are struggling like me. And a friend of mine sat across from me, and she said, “You know I’m so grateful that you shared your story when you did, because if you had shared it after you got all your answers,” she said, “I wouldn’t have given you a year.”

Elisa: Gosh!

Julie: “And to know that there’s somebody out there that’ll share a story because they feel exactly like I’m feeling right now,” she said. “I can believe you more. I want to hear your words more.” And then so that … that confirmed it for me. It’s like I’m… you’re kind of crazy. You’re still under the diagnosis. You’re not probably hearing from the Lord. You know, and you doubt yourself, and I did. I very much did.

Elisa: That’s such a good principle, Julie. You know we think we have to be all done and tied up with a bow, you know…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …for God to use us. And…

[Laughter]

Elisa: …and the reality is you’re right, you know, I mean there are seasons to be quiet, for sure…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …But, you know, the…the reality that God led you to share from the very middle…the midst…

Julie: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: …of your pain is so powerful. And I really want to underline: This was a long process. So…

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …what were some of the other tools or opportunities that…that God laid for you?

Julie: Yeah. It came down to …uh… I started to journal, and I found a lot of healing in journaling where every word I was writing to the Lord, I just wrote from my heart. I didn’t hide it. I didn’t have to, like you said, put a bow on it…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: …And that was an expression, and I felt I got a lot of healing as I wrote to the Lord. And then, growing up, I always grew up with a reading plan; and when my life got so desperate, I was not getting much from the reading plan. So I started to like open the Word of God and start to desperately search for somebody that struggled like me, somebody had…had words like me. And so the Word of God started to open up in front of me, and I started to see people that were struggling and suffering, and people that we don’t usually put on our podiums and platforms, and people… We have all the big stories of valor and everything, but where’s their backstories? Where…how many times did God tell Joshua not to be afraid? Isn’t it obvious that he was afraid? Like so I started to see so much of me in the Word of God, our humanity, our frailty. And God didn’t choose to hide it from the Word of God. And I was like Okay, and then when I started to share my story, there was a big release in my heart from oh, you know, keeping it all in me and within me and hiding it under the rug. And, culturally, we come from a place where it’s very honor-shame-driven, and we’re like, you know, Just go get prayed over… uh… Go get some medicine, or go eat more or, you know, that kind of stuff…

Eryn: Yeah.

Julie: And so, when I started to share, there was some freedom I was experiencing there. When I started to hear other people share their stories, there was another part of my freedom there. When I started to speak into their lives, again, another part of my freedom started to show up there. And then God led me to write a book. Again, my whole journal was put into this book, and I was like Whoa! And put it out there when I wasn’t fully ready either. Again, another part of my freedom. So it was so many, and yes, we sought medical help as well. I did counseling. My counselor was a big part of my healing. I regularly sought prayer. I did a Bible study in my home, just from the place that I was at, and I just: “Here’s what I have to offer, and let’s all just share this carpet in my living room together.” And we would just all end up on our carpet and just share each other’s hearts and cry and pray and… So my healing came in so many of those avenues. It did not come with the immediate touch of a wand, which I wish. And I… I’ve seen miracles. I’ve seen miracles…

Elisa: Sure.

Julie: …in my family happen like that, and people supernaturally healed, and I truly, truly believe in that. But…uh… for some reason, He didn’t choose that for me.

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: And I feel like my healing would be here, and I would be done, and I’d be forgotten… And the healing would be forgotten, mostly likely…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …but I can never forget this healing or this path.

Eryn: I think it’s so brave and just it’s a beautiful thing that God prompted you to share in the midst of …

Julie: [whispers] Yeah.

Eryn: …your healing versus coming on the other side.

Elisa: Yeah, we’re always looking for: What’s the formula? And, you know, what are my nine steps?

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: …And What number am I on the Enneagram? And the reality you just… you just sank down into the reality with God, and He met you. How did this journey affect your marriage? Affect your children…

Julie: Oh!

Elisa: …and your family? [Laughter] … Yeah, that’s a fun one, I’m sure.

Eryn: It’s an honest conversation here…

Julie: Yeah. Yeah.

Eryn: …or honest questions…

Julie: Oh my gosh, yeah! We went through so much in our marriage, like it was a lot of confusion for my husband, like I said; cause I couldn’t explain what was going on with me to him.

Elisa: And he’s chasing you down streets with children in the car. Yeah. Hello. Mm-hmm.

Julie: Yeah, he helped me with the kids at home and everything. But besides that, it was very hard for him. When I was like I need help. I need prayer. I need somebody to know that, you know, this is happening, and he was very hesitant; cause he was like, “How do we tell people this?” Like, you know, so…

Elisa: Yeah. Mm.

Julie: …there was a shame factor…

Elisa: Yeah.

Julie: …that he battled with as well…

Elisa: Sure, sure.

Julie: …And then there were days when I couldn’t peel myself off this condition to go outside and face people, cause it was just so overwhelming for me. It was hard for him because he’s like “What am I going to tell people? How do I tell people that you’re not here? What is the reason you’re not here for so many weeks?” So there’s so many challenges that we both faced. And, of course, the kids — oh my goodness! It’s just but by the grace of God that they are who they are today and serving God, and they love the Lord. But it was hard. I really feel like the Lord raised those kids for me, because there were times when I wouldn’t recognize the babies and go… just sitting there and going Who are these kids? And this was at the beginning…

Eryn: Oh.

Julie: …until one of them dropped something, or let out a squeal or something, and I’d go… You snap back to reality, and you’re like, Oh, these are my babies. So there was that …uh… darker place, in terms of how the children were affected too. You know we did our best to still love on them and take care of them. And, you know, I hope to God that none of this is settled in their hearts, except for the … They’re… they’re watching Mom, now, walk around and share her story. And …uh… like, you know, my older son helped me set up everything here, and so they have been…

Eryn: Aww!

Julie: …very much a part of the journey.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: I love that!

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: None of us signed up for this, but we’ve been all pushed into this forefront, and sharing… all of us sharing little aspects of our story with whoever needs to hear it. And God knows who needs to hear it at the right time.

Eryn: I just think it’s so… What a gift to give your children this type of honesty and transparency of your journey; because, I mean, now they get to be a part of the restoration…

Julie: Mm. Yeah.

Eryn: …and really experience it as… That’s so beautiful!

Elisa: I think so many of us feel so helpless when someone we love is…is suffering but in the ways you’re describing. I know there are women listening right now, and maybe their struggle is a heaviness or a depression, or maybe it’s something else. But there’s great fear that is gripping — a fear of I can’t admit this. I’m going to be thrown out of wherever I am — my job, my home, my church, my small group, my friendships, my marriage. I’m going to be thrown out if…if I come clean and say, “This is what my life is really like.”

Julie: Yeah.

Elisa: Julie, for…for a minute, can you speak to her? Can you challenge her, comfort her, wrap your voice around her, and…and give her something to hold onto?

Julie: Fear is real. And…and with this illness, I experienced it, too, immensely… immensely to the point where, like I said, I woke up every morning with like a knot in my stomach. And I’m sure a lot of people that are listening to us feel that every day. It’s this… You wake up in the morning, and oh, why is this day here? I don’t want this day to be here. Let’s just let this night just continue. And… uh… and then the fear of being in front of people. And I couldn’t face people. I couldn’t make eye contact with people, and when God started to slowly heal me, and, you know, our pastor was always kept informed of our journey. And they were with us through the whole thing. And when God started to heal me, and I went to him and said, “You know I’m starting to feel different.” And he would say, “I can see it in your eyes.”

Elisa: Hm.

Julie: …Because I wouldn’t make eye contact with people. It was fear. It was fear. What are they going to see if they look into me? And then going to a grocery store, being in a mall — the sounds, the people. I would… I’ve run out of a grocery store like I can’t imagine how many times. I’d be shopping, and I’d just leave it and walk out… run out, because it was too overwhelming. So the fear is so real, and that’s just the physical fear… strong physical impression of fear. And then there’s the fear of What if people know? And then there’s the fear of What are they going to think of me? And, you know, there’s so many aspects of fear that, I think, anybody that struggles with this illness has to battle. It’s not just one blanket emotion. It comes with so many threads underlying that it’s so hard. And, for me, that was one of my biggest enemies. I always tell people: Fear was my biggest, biggest, biggest enemy. And I was so afraid of just … I started to become afraid of me.

Elisa: Hm.

Eryn: Mm.

Julie: …I was like, you know, just fearful of who I am even. And it was so overwhelming to be engulfed in that fear. And so, yes, it is so real. You’re not lying to yourself. You’re not making it up. At least when I was going through it, I would say, this is… Even people had told me “It’s in your head.”

Elisa: Hm.

Julie: …And it wasn’t.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Julie: …I don’t want to live in a fearful place. I… I really don’t want to. No person wants to live in a fearful place. Right? And my fear was so crippling, paralyzing, and you’re not lying to yourself. It’s real. It’s real.

Elisa: I want to offer a kind of a prayer, as we pull this to a close, Julie, because that’s what’s coming up in my heart, as…as you’re sharing this. Fear can feel like the walls coming in on us, and we are all alone in this box. Heh! And I… I read a prayer. I’m not sure who wrote it. Maybe someone will tell us, but when we feel so afraid and so alone, if we can imagine, yes, God’s with us, but pray this:

God before me, in front of me.

God behind me, in back of me.

God above me, over my head.

God below me.

God beside me, on either side of me.

He then takes up that space, and the boxes, edges, and walls are pushed out by His presence. God above me, God below me, God before me, God behind me, God beside me.

[Theme music]

Eryn: Thank you for that prayer, Elisa. And special thanks to Julie’s vulnerability and courage to pursue healing in the midst of her fear. We want to remind you that if you, or someone you love, is hurting, please reach out to a loved one, or seek counseling. You are not alone.

Elisa: Well, before we go, we want to remind you that the show notes are available in the podcast description. You can also find a link for resources to help with depression or feelings of fear and anxiety. You can find this and more when you visit godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.o.r.g.

Eryn: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget: God hears you, He sees you, and He loves because you are His.

[Music]

Elisa: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. We also want to thank Kathi and Peggy for all of their help and support. Thanks everyone.

[ODB theme]

Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.