Reframing Wellness

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 176 – Reframing Wellness with Robin Long

Vivian Mabuni & Eryn Adkins with Robin Long

[Music]

Robin: How do we disconnect the belief that wellness just equals weight loss or potentially, for another situation, it might be weight gain, right? Depending… or whatever your, kind of, definition that wellness equals how I look on the outside. We need to break that down before we can move forward into a successful relationship with consistently caring for ourselves.

Elisa: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women, where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through Scripture, story, and conversation at godhearsher.org. God hears her. Seek and she will find. 

Vivian: Before we get into this episode, we have an announcement to make about a new film by Our Daily Bread Ministries. Every year, people all around the world sing songs to celebrate the birth of Christ. But have you ever wondered where these beloved Christmas carols come from? Christian musical artists Drew and Ellie Holcomb have teamed up with Michael W. Smith, CeCe Winans, and Our Daily Bread Ministries to explore the history and meanings behind the most classic songs of Christmas. Join them and some of your other favorite Christian artists for The Carols of Christmas, presented by Our Daily Bread Ministries. You can find a link to watch it in our show notes. 

Eryn: Robin Long is a health and wellness expert. She is the founder and CEO of Lindywell, a global mind and body wellness company that provides Pilates workouts, breath work, and nutrition to help women build strength, reduce stress, and connect with their bodies. Vivian, I am really looking forward to this conversation because it’s a conversation that I’ve had, actually, with my husband lately. We’re in this season where we are like, oh my gosh, time has flown, and I don’t know if we’ve taken really great care of ourselves in this season kind of thing. And I feel like a lot of people can relate to that. You can almost get so overwhelmed with your circumstance, or with kids, or with everything. It’s almost like you just become reactionary. 

Vivian: Yea, and I think we can tend to neglect our recognizing that we are people encased in a human body, but it’s like we’re integrated. And so, when we don’t consider the whole of who we are, things kind of fall apart. And what’s interesting to me, what you were just describing is that for me, I recognize that my body will communicate things to me that I might not even be aware of, but my body totally knows. It’s kind of that idea that the body just is not going to lie. So, I’m excited about our conversation as well. And I’m excited because I think we are in a time when, as Christian women, sometimes we get conflicting messages about what it means to be…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … caring for ourselves, caring for our bodies. What does that mean? There’s a lot of misinformation sometimes out there about the importance of wellness, or selfcare is selfish, or, I mean, just differing topics. So, I’m just glad that we have someone with us today that can help lead and guide our conversation. 

Eryn: Yes, yes. Robin, welcome to the God Hears Her podcast. 

Robin: Thank you. I am so excited to be here.

Eryn: Really before we dig in, we love to get to know our guest and to learn a little bit about what has made them. And so, I would love for you to share, maybe, what is your wellness journey been like?

Robin: Absolutely. I love to share this because we all have a journey that we’ve been on that informs how we relate to our body today, how we relate to selfcare today, how we relate to fitness, exercise. And so, when I was a little girl, I received a message about my body, just a flippant message from a friend’s dad. We had dressed up, you know, in our matching outfits for the day. We were wearing, like, giant t-shirts and little spandex shorts, remember when that was the look…

Eryn: Yes.

Robin: … with, like, tied up with the scrunchie, and we thought we looked so cute. And we ran out to the front porch, and we said, look at us. And the first thing the dad said, he looked at both of us and he said, look how much skinnier her legs are than Robin’s. And it was a little comment that, honestly, he was just observing, I don’t think he meant anything ill of it. But here I am, a forty-year-old woman. still remembering that moment…

Vivian: Sure.

Robin: … and I remember I ran down into her basement, I crawled under this little, like, pinball table, and I just started crying. It’s so interesting to me because I was only about eight years old, and I don’t know why I knew that was a bad thing, or air quotes, bad thing. Like, something about that comment, I already had some kind of belief that if I was bigger than someone else it was quote unquote bad. 

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: And I’m, like, I was eight years old. How did I know that? How did I absorb that message? Because it wasn’t coming from my home life, my parents, you know, I… I felt like I was in a very encouraging home life, and it just is so interesting to look back on. We all have a moment. When I’ve spoken to our community, I run…  now run Lindywell, so we serve women all over the world, and every time I bring up a story like this, every woman can say, oh, I can think back to a time when someone made a comment about me that I can still remember, and I still hold on to in some way. Right? So, I then went on to grow up, and go through puberty, and all of these things where your body develops, and to develop just a real awareness of my body from a very young age: the size, the shape. For years, as I got older, I didn’t wear shorts. I never wanted to show my legs. Interesting, knowing that that comment…

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: … was one that seared into me as a little girl, right? So, we all have something different, whether it’s something a mother said, a mother-in-law said, an uncle, a friend, and we carry these with us. So, what I am passionate about is, kind of, pulling back the curtain for ourselves on what are some of these messages that we’ve been receiving as women and girls for so many years, whether it’s through family, whether it’s through advertisements, whether it’s just through the culture that we swim in, and then how has that affected the way that we relate to ourselves, and relate, then, to health and selfcare. So, for me, just to kind of go from there, I… I became an athlete, I became a dancer, and dance is in another area where there’s a lot of focus on your body, right? Even if you’re in a fairly positive environment with it, you’re still standing in front of a mirror for hours a day in spandex or tights, and naturally comparing yourselves to everyone around you. So, I really struggled with body image. I really, really struggled in high school. As I went into college, I became really unhealthy in my relationship with exercise. It was always just a way to fix myself, to try to make myself look better for myself, for others. I don’t even know why, I just had to, you know. I just had this pressure, and many people can relate to this. So, I became stuck in a bit of a cycle of, I should exercise. I should do this because I ate that. Or, if I’m gonna want to enjoy my vacation, then I need to get ready and exercise before that. Like there was a very unhealthy cycle and it’s very normalized, I believe, in our culture, actually, for women…

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: … So, my journey really, I hit a point of rock bottom, and I remember I was in college, and in just really unhealthy place with myself and my life, and I prayed. And I said, God, if there’s a way out, just give me a way out. And I hadn’t prayed for years and there was a turning point that happened. I had an opportunity to move out to California with my cousin and kind of extricate myself from the situation I was in. They were believers, and I knew that by going into that environment, it would be a more healthy environment for me. And, you know, years after that, I don’t need to go through every year for you here, but ultimately began a journey of healing in my relationship with God, and also then in my body, and then ultimately I found Pilates, which was a huge component for me in starting to change the way I related to my body, and exercise, and fitness. And now, I feel so grateful for where I’m at and how much I’ve transformed that I just spend my days and time trying to encourage others to have a similar transformation and experience. 

Vivian: That’s beautiful. Okay, I’m gonna just jump in because of my ignorance, but I’m thinking that maybe some other listeners might be the same. Can you describe… I… I have heard Pilates, I have never done Pilates…

Eryn: I love Pilates, just so you know, Robin.

Vivian: You know, I’ve like… So, yeah, okay, so…

Eryn: Right here.

Vivian: … Robin, can you help us to…

Robin: Yes.

Vivian: … Can you describe Pilates and how is it different…

Robin: Absolutely.

Vivian: … than any other type of exercise?

Robin: I am so glad you asked this, because I like to demystify it for people, because it can also be, like, it’s for only certain types of people, and you’re in these weird studios, and you have all these contraptions, or maybe ribbons, and… and it’s not for me. So, Pilates is primarily a form of exercise, training, and conditioning, it was created by someone named Joseph Pilates years ago, and he actually created this method of exercise to help rehabilitate soldiers… in the war. So, if you see some of the equipment in Pilates studios that looks like a hospital bed…

Vivian: Right.

Robin: … that’s because it was fashioned originally out of a hospital bed and he’d get pulleys and levers and different things to help people really retrain the mind to muscle connection…

Vivian: Wow.

Robin: … and to help people rebuild their strength on their own, without a lot of, you know, extra weights and different things. He then went on to, with his wife, train dancers, and gymnasts, and boxers, and it became a really important form of physical conditioning for athletes. And it’s just evolved over the years. So, Pilates can be done on equipment, so you’ll see that sometimes in studios, a reformer, a Cadillac, some of these fairly intimidating equipment if you’ve never done it before. Or it can be done on a mat, and that’s the original foundational form of Pilates is mat based exercises, and that’s what I teach, you know, through Lindywell, because my goal is to make Pilates more accessible for everyone. So, you can do it on your mat at home, you don’t need the fancy equipment, and it’s really focused on core strength, alignment, using your own body weight for resistance, as well as breath and control. So, there’s this very powerful mind-body connection that happens, but I like to make the distinction between yoga, is that yoga has deep roots in spiritual traditions and there’s so much to yoga. Pilates is primarily an exercise modality. So, I love it, it’s been really transformative for me. I think everybody should be doing it. So, Vivian, we’re going to get you…

Vivian: [inaudible]

Robin: … started at home, even just a little bit. So, Eryn, I’d love to hear your experience. 

Eryn: It was the best I’ve ever felt in my body when I was doing Pilates. And… what I liked about it is that it was the combination of stretching, and tone, and being… building tone, which is something that kind of going back to the beginning of your story, what I loved is what you said, how he probably didn’t even mean anything by it, right? You’re young. I have a story very similar to that, where I had a hard time gaining weight. So, people would make really hurtful comments, and still do, about my size. So, I wanted to find something that I could build tone because my size offended people. And I think that’s the message that we can sometimes grab onto that we don’t realize that we’re holding for so long is that just our pure existence is offending somebody else and they have an opinion about it. And we end up acquiring that perspective and opinion instead of really going to understanding what is true about us. And so, I’ve loved Pilates in that sense that I felt more empowered, and more mentally strong, and physically strong, and any sort of exercise, honestly, when I’m able to tell myself that I can do hard things and do them, it’s just… it’s so good for my mental health. And when I get out of the routine of it, I start responding to really challenging, and hard, and emotionally draining things so differently than if I have a routine that’s on my calendar that I make a priority. 

Robin: I love that. And one of the things that rings up when you say that is, for me, exercise had often been a way to, like, push myself, and kind of punish myself, right?

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: Like, oh, I just have to burn off these calories, or I’ve got to get swimsuit ready, or whatever the message, the lie I was believing…

Eryn: It’s like… almost like shame. Yeah, yeah.

Robin: … It’s very shame based. And something about the Pilates approach for me, and I think this helps for many people, and I think you can then apply this to all the various forms of exercise that you love, but was breaking that connection point. So, I remember being in my first Pilates class, and taking a deep breath, and the instructor being, like, scan your body for tension. And I remember that moment of how much tension and stress I was holding in my body that I had not even realized. Like, I had just been walking around with back pain, with neck pain, little did I know my shoulders were up to my ears and my tension, you know, until I got in there and I started to build the ability, you mentioned this at the beginning of the episode, the ability to start to listen to my body again, and connect with my body again, and then be able to respond and honor that.

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: So, sometimes that’s pushing hard on a day where you’re like, that’s what I need. Some days that’s slowing down…

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: … and breathing and being a little bit more gentle. So, I think that’s a really important thing that many women have lost the ability to do: to listen to our bodies, and then respond in a way that honors that.

Eryn: Yes, absolutely. Great

Vivian: Isn’t it so amazing how God has so intricately woven us to be physical, and emotional, and spiritual, and relational, and the alignment really is designed that we would be able to enter into stressful situations or challenging situations with a frame of mind and a body that’s prepared even to…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … endure or carry us from point A to point B. Tell us more about how you founded Lindywell. What is Lindywell, and a little bit of that journey too. 

Robin: Yeah. So, Lindywell is an online Pilates platform. We have an app and a membership community that provides at-home Pilates workouts. It’s specifically designed for busy women. So… I… it was really born out of my blog that I started about 14 years ago. So, it was originally called The Balanced Life, and I was becoming a Pilates instructor, and I decided to blog kind of alongside that, really as a place to share this approach I was trying to bring into the health and fitness space, because I always say, kind of, I felt like I didn’t fit in. I would go into the gym or the studios, and the primary message was, let’s lose weight. Let’s get you skinny. Let’s get that six pack. That’s all the trainers were focused on that, you know, most clients would come in with that being their goal. You know, on my journey that I had been on was a healing journey of let’s move for a different reason. Let’s care for our bodies for a different reason Also, I was finding, in working with my clients, that while they came in maybe with those goals, what they really wanted was to just feel good…

Eryn: Yeah.

Robin: … They wanted to feel strong. They wanted to feel heard, actually. They wanted to feel understood, whether they were carrying a lot of anxiety, or a lot of stress about an injury that they had been working through. I mean, it’s very, as you said, Vivian, we’re very connected, right? So, when we aren’t feeling well in our body, we go through our day with a level of stress, or a level of disengagement or… or anxiety that can really affect our relationships and can… can affect how we feel. So, my goal was to start this blog to really, again, share a balanced approach, that’s why it’s called The Balanced Life, to be able to try to show, look, we don’t have to go all extreme. We can take care of ourselves but do it in a way that isn’t all or nothing, or restrictive, or perpetuating some of the pressures that we feel as women. So, the blog eventually led into some online Pilates programs, which eventually led to people saying, will you do a subscription type thing? Which, at first, I said, no, I don’t want to do that because I have… I was having my first kids. I had little babies, and I was just trying to manage it all. But eventually it just made sense. So, Lindywell, as a membership, is going to be turning ten on its next birthday, so, we’ve been ten years. I now have four kids. So, I joke that I’ve been building the business, and building a family along the way… 

Eryn: Which is two businesses in a sense…

Robin: Yeah, it’s… It’s a lot.

Eryn: It’s a lot. 

Robin: So, I really, like, live and breathe, and I am my own, you know, client as well, because I’m in it too. I’m in the struggle just like everyone else to figure out how to show up every day, take care of my family, work, be a good friend, be involved in my community, and also figure out how to take care of myself in the process. So, everything we do at Lindywell is really designed to be efficient and effective, so not, you know, an hour-long workout. We’ve got fifteen-minute workouts, ten-minute workouts, we have what we call a grace-over-guilt approach. So, we really… I’m really passionate about helping people transform the way they think and break some of those lies that have been keeping them stuck. People will often say, where do I start? You know, should I start lifting weights? Should I start doing Pilates? Should I change my diet? Like what should I do first? And the first thing we need to do, if we want to actually have a lifelong commitment, and that doesn’t mean it’s gonna be perfect, we’re going to have ups and downs, but if we really want to commit to caring for ourselves for the long haul and not just for a quick-fix period of time, then we have to start with the way we’re thinking. So, we call it reframing and these are things like, you know, maybe you’re stuck in the all-or-nothing mentality. Maybe you tend to get into that pattern of, okay, I’m gonna do this thing that starts on Monday and it’s going to be…

Vivian: January first.

Robin: … Yes, and I’m gonna go four times a week, and I’m also gonna cut out all sugar, and you know. And then what happens? We get started. Can any of us stick with it? No.

Eryn: Very hard.

Vivian: Right.

Robin: Very challenging. Then we, you know, find ourselves, oh, forget it. I’m going to throw in the towel all together. We go maybe a few more weeks, or months, or years, depending on what’s going on in your life before you get up the energy to start again. So, we talk about how do we break that all-or-nothing mentality? How do we disconnect the belief that wellness just equals weight loss, or potentially for another situation, it might be weight gain, right? Depending… or whatever your, kind of, definition that wellness equals how I look on the outside.

Eryn: Right.

Robin: We need to break that down before we can move forward into a successful relationship with consistently caring for ourselves 

Eryn: Robin, would you pull back the curtain a little bit on, you know, as you’ve shared that you’ve really been on this beautiful and transformative healing journey. What does that look like for you and what you’ve been healing from? 

Robin: My healing journey has been a way of repairing my relationship with my body, my relationship with exercise, my relationship with food. And so, for me, it first started when I found Pilates. Something about it really allowed me to connect to my body again in a new way. So, it helped me recognize that before, while I was exercising I was pretty miserable about it. I was… I didn’t enjoy it. I was forcing myself to go to the gym and be on that elliptical. I hate the elliptical to this day… Someone else might love it. That’s great, but, like, for me, it was just watching the clock, and watching that calorie ticker, and trying to force myself because I quote unquote should, and I had to check a box. When I found Pilates, it helped me find a new strength, reconnect to my body. I started feeling different. I was feeling less stressed. I was feeling stronger. I remember I, like, felt muscles. I’m like, what are these muscles? I didn’t leave the workouts feeling exhausted. I didn’t leave the workouts feeling like, oh, I got that calorie burn I needed, like, it’s a more gentle form of exercise. That was actually very healing for me to be able to go and pursue exercise in a way that I enjoyed, in a way, that helped me feel stronger. And then instead of feeling like, oh, I need to go like, now I’m so exhausted I’m going to go eat up all these foods. Like, that’s what I used to do. I kind of had this exercise-binge cycle, Instead, I’d be like, wow, I feel really good after class, and so I think I want to drink more water and, like, I… I want to fuel myself well. There started to be a positive ripple effect. I took off all pressure. So, for years, I didn’t wear any kind of fitness trackers, threw out the scale, all of the things that I used to find to measure myself. I had to break up with that in order to get back in touch with what it feels… what feels good. And with that, I was also praying consistently, talking to God consistently, to ask Him to help me repair this part of my life, right? So, to say, God, will You help me to care for my body well? Will You help me to break free of some of these lies? Going to Scripture to be reminded of what is the truth? What is the truth of my value? What matters in life? There’s not scripture telling me that I need to go, you know, burn calories on the elliptical. So, when I bring myself back to the truth again and again, and really finding that grace and that love in my relationship with the Lord, that was a big, big part of it for me. And something that, again, helped me to decipher what voices to be listening to, and how to move forward when I needed a different perspective. 

Vivian: I love that you’ve taken the things that you’ve walked through and now are able to turn that around to help so many other people who are in that same place that you were… that’s such a beautiful picture of redemption, and just a restoration of health that you’re then able to share with others. It’s beautiful. Okay, so I’m curious, like, how does a woman walk in that environment where everyone’s mindset is about plastic surgery and, you know, doing all these things to try to, and I don’t want to bash anyone who…

Robin: Sure.

Vivian: …you know, loves Botox or whatever, but it was like, there’s just such a pressure to look well on the outside. So, even as a… as a Christian, as a woman, what would you say to the college women? What would you say to women listening with that…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … kind of external pressure? 

Robin: I definitely understand that, and I think we can experience it all over in different ways. And so, you know, one of the things that I think about, and I remember thinking about in my healing journey, was getting back to at the end of the day, like, what do I actually need to be happy? Right? Or what do I actually value? And even as women now, right, however old we are, I just entered my forties, now it’s just different types of pressures that come up with what… is it that you value, right? And when we can go on this journey of kind of dissecting, what are these beliefs and pressures that are being put on me? Because often we don’t even know what they are. We’re just swimming…

Eryn: That’s true. Yeah.

Robin: … in the culture and we haven’t actually taken the time to break them down.

Eryn: That’s good.

Robin: So, taking time to say, what are some of these beliefs or lies that I might be believing about myself, right? I need to lose weight. I need to have no wrinkles. I need to have better clothing. I don’t know. I need to be taller. I need to gain weight. Like, I need to be more curvy. We’re all going to have a different thing, whatever those beliefs are, like, this is a great exercise to do in journaling. Take it to your journal, start to break down what are some of these beliefs? Start to say, where might that be coming from? Right? Maybe you could tie it to something where you did hear this message growing up. Maybe it is well, this is what all my friends are talking about. They’re all talking about this all the time. Maybe it is the content you’re consuming on Instagram and social media that is telling you constantly eat this not that, do this workout, dah, dah, dah. You know, it’s going into our psyche and our mindset all the time. So, first step is uncovering what are some of these lies that we’re believing, and then we can start to decide do we agree with them? Do we align with them? Is that really where our values are? Like, do you want to spend all your time thinking about what you’re eating? Like, once I got to that point, I’m like, no, that’s actually miserable. I want freedom. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Robin: And, you know, do I actually want, for example, to the college girls, right? Like, I remember when I was looking, you know, I wanted to date someone and I’m, like, looking for a boyfriend. When I was able to be like, do I actually want someone who falls in love with me because of my body size? I actually don’t. Like, what I really want is someone who’s going to love me and care for me regardless of that. So, even going down to that level to be like that’s not even actually what I want. Cause if I found that person, and then I had to maintain this physique in order to be valuable to that person. Like, what… so we can start to break these things down, we get a little bit of power and knowledge. 

Vivian: So wise. I appreciate your perspective so much because it is… it’s a holistic approach. There’s not a silver bullet to, you know, change things up, but it’s really that awareness piece and that reframing piece that kind of begins the journey. I think that it’s rare to find a person that doesn’t want to be healthy, or, you know, it’s… I don’t think that there are people that were like, intentionally, like, I’m choosing because I don’t want to be healthy. I think generally people would like to enjoy their life as pain free as possible, and as healthy as possible, and be able to ward off illnesses because our bodies are functioning in the ways that it was meant to, with just the ways that God has already designed us. But I do think that it can be so defeating and recognizing even the kind of company we keep can affect the way that we walk…

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: … around day to day. 

Robin: We’re breaking down these lies, maybe, that we have associated with what it means to be well and what it means to be healthy…

Eryn: Yup.

Robin: … And then we can do a couple of different things. We can, obviously, for our worth go back to Scripture. What is actually true about us, right? Where does our value, where does our worth come from? And then, as it relates to the health and exercise thing, it’s about taking an approach that is really about true wellness. So, I think sometimes people stop there. They’re like, oh, I have to break down all these lies and I shouldn’t care about this and I shouldn’t care about that. That’s good. But then we actually want to rebuild and say, okay, so, what is true wellness look like for each of us? And then how can we pursue that? How can we make progress towards being more active? These are good things, right? Being more active, fueling our body well, hydrating, getting good sleep, getting outside, unplugging, you know, these are all good things to help us feel like the healthiest, most vibrant version of ourselves. And so, it’s starting to piece apart some of the shame-based, guilt-based things. I think of bondage…

Eryn: Yup.

Vivian: Yes.

Robin: … versus being able to move forward and pursue true wellness in a place of freedom with grace, with focusing on strength, and caring. I always talk about, with food, the concept of nourishing, right? Like, how can we genuinely nourish our body?

Eryn: That’s a good one.

Robin: When we take that approach with food, that becomes a lot different than, oh, I shouldn’t eat that, I shouldn’t have that. Like, what would nourish me today? What would nourish me with this meal? Sometimes it’s… we’re celebrating my twin’s birthday this week, and chocolate cake is nourishing me today with my twins, right? Like, that’s all… there is space for that. That is what I am enjoying with my family. But then other times, you know, I need some protein and some vegetables…

Vivian: Yes, yes.

Robin: … to nourish myself today. So, I… like, I want to help people know we have to break down, we can kind of reframe, and then we can pursue health and wellness in a way that is genuinely caring for the body we’ve been given and the soul we’ve been given. And I want to remind all of us that God says we are good. We are good and He created us in His image, so knowing that we are good as we are today. We don’t have to change the size of our thighs. We don’t have to change the shape of our body. We are good. And we can rest in that and know that we don’t have to change who we are in order to be called good, and worthy, and loved. And I think it starts there, and then I would also just encourage everyone to think God also wants us to move towards freedom, right? Away from that bondage and away from that shame, and that’s love, that’s grace. And so, when we also consider when trying to navigate how to care for our body as well [music], how can we do that in a way that honors and cares for, I think those are strong words as well, like, care for, because for some people that might be eating more today. Like, nourish yourself, care for yourself. For someone else that might be taking a nap. For someone else that might be throwing out that scale. For someone else that might be starting to exercise. So, how can we care for the body that God has given us as a way to show love to ourselves and honor God? And do that in a way that does bask in the freedom and not in the guilt and the shame that we have been swimming in because of our culture.

[Music]

Vivian: I love everything that we just learned from Robin. We can all reframe our mindset to pursue health for the right reasons. 

Eryn: Yes, I agree, Vivian. This was such an important conversation. Well, Happy New Year, everyone. We hope that you had a great holiday season, and before we go, be sure to check out our show notes for a link to The Carols of Christmas to watch the show. Find that and more at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.

Vivian: And if you liked this episode, you’ve been listening to the show for a bit, please leave us a rating and review wherever you listen to your podcasts. We’d love to hear from you, and be sure to share your favorite episode with a friend. 

Eryn: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget, God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you, because you are His.

[Music]

Vivian: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. We also want to thank Tyler and Emmy for all their help and support. Thanks everyone.

Eryn: Our Daily Bread Ministries is a donor-supported nonprofit ministry dedicated to making the life-changing wisdom and stories of the Bible come alive for all people around the world.

[Music]

Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.