The Best of God Hears Her Podcast – When We Feel We Aren’t Enough

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 54 – The Best of God Hears Her – When We Feel We Aren’t Enough
Elisa Morgan and Eryn Eddy with Laura Smith

Laura:  The truth is, no matter what the world tells us about how we should look, what we should wear, what we should eat or cook or what our kids should look like, our…what our relationships should look like, God says we’re His. He says we’re His masterpieces in Ephesians 2:10. And a masterpiece means that we’re perfectly crafted exactly how He designed us to be. He tells us that we’re made in His image. He tells us that we’re His beloved daughters. We need to listen to that.

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Voice: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.

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Elisa:  Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Elisa Morgan.

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Eryn:  And I’m Eryn Eddy. We all experience life-defining moments. Some of which are good and life changing. And some of those moments are not so good. And what happens when we allow those not-so-good moments to negatively define our identities? How can we overcome the lies that we’ve believed and learn to hear God’s life-changing and freeing truth?

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Elisa:  Those are some great questions, Eryn. And…and today our friend, Laura Smith, walks through these same questions with us through her own story. She explains her experience of learning God’s unconditional love and how she had to learn to see herself through His eyes, rather than through the eyes that were instilled in her from childhood experiences.

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Eryn:  Yeah, and just to give some background, Laura is avid story teller through her books, blog posts, and public speaking. Her recent book How Sweet the Sound focuses on the truth, redemption, and joy that comes from Scripture-inspired hymns. Through the Bible and the truths mirrored in the hymns, Laura aspires to help others see that they are masterpieces created by God. So, let’s get this inspiring conversation going. This is God Hears Her with Laura Smith.

Elisa:  Laura, thanks for being with us. We’re super glad you’re here.

Laura:  Thanks so much for having me on today.

Elisa:  You know, I want to start this off a little bit differently. If…if you’ll let me. And let’s see what happens with this. Have you ever been left?

Laura:  Yes. As a little girl, my dad would leave our family repeatedly. I didn’t understand what that meant when I was little. I thought he was leaving me because I wasn’t good enough. Now as a grown woman, I can see he was leaving because he had his own issues and his own emotional and psychological struggles. But as a little girl, he would be home; he would be there; everything was happy. I think our family looked very all-American family from the outside. And then he just wouldn’t be. And then he would come back and everything was normal again for a few years, and then he’ll be gone.

Elisa:  Can…can you unpack what your family looked like?

Laura:  Yeah.

Elisa:  Did you have siblings and…?

Laura:  Sure, sure, sure. So, I have this super sweet, amazing mother, who is probably the most loving, kindest human being on the earth. I adore her. I hope I can be like her one day. And I have an older brother, who’s four years older than me, who I have always loved and adored. And then I have my Dad. I grew up in Columbus, Ohio. And the first time I remember him leaving I must have been in first or second grade, is the first time I remember. Our family never talked about it, which I think is so spooky in retrospect. But it was never like, “Oh, my gosh. This is devastating. Like, Dad has cheated on Mom,” and he’s done this terrible thing. It was just like, “Okay, so you’re going to go spend the weekend with your dad. And then…” I remember just, like, sitting down at the table, and, like, Dad wasn’t at the table. And it was like, “Where’s Dad?” “Oh, he’s not living here right now.” “Oh?” But that’s all that would be said. Like, we didn’t discuss it. And then when he came back it was the same. It was just like, “Oh, he’s now at the dinner table. Please pass the salt.”

Eryn:  Oh, wow.

Laura:  And I know that it was… I’m sure my dad didn’t want to talk about it.

Eryn:  Yeah.

Laura:  I adore my mom. I think she was just trying to protect us. And in her way, that’s how she felt that we would be most protected. But clearly it was not a healthy growing up. So… Yeah.

Elisa:  I can feel that, you know, this is a…a very raw topic. And…and forgive me for just jumping in that way, but Laura, the experience of being left is something I think so many of us relate to. I mean don’t you think, Eryn? I mean my gosh. I mean…

Eryn:  Yeah.

Elisa:  Yeah. I mean I’ve been left. My…my dad left us when I was five and divorced my mom. And I felt like he divorced me, kind of the way you were describing.

Eryn:  Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s so interesting how, you know, you can…you can grow up thinking one way about your family life.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Eryn:  And then you step into this, like, awareness.. 

Laura:  Yeah.

Eryn:  …of what it really is. And then, you know, how your father figure played a part in your life, that can reflect how you see God playing a part in your life.

Laura:  For sure.

Eryn:  Does God come and go the same way that we have sometimes experienced that with our dad? I mean do you think that experience of being left at a young age shaped and molded the way that you view your relationship with God? Take us through how you learned about God to how you are now.

Laura:  Yeah. So, grew up going to church. I mean we went to church every Sunday. My dad was an usher.

Eryn:  Oh.

Laura:  My dad led a men’s group.

Eryn:  Oh, wow.

Laura:  But because my dad would keep leaving, I kept internalizing that as I wasn’t enough. So, I think the damage that it caused was that I believed I wasn’t enough, period. That I felt like I had to earn love. That I thought that I had to achieve love. So, I’m definitely a people pleaser. I’m a performer. I am all of those things as a result of that. And there’s nothing wrong with pleasing people and, like, you know, making people happy. And there’s nothing wrong with going out and using the gifts God gave us to the best of our abilities. But the motivations were all wrong. And I honestly felt there wasn’t enough that I could do, earn, achieve, way I could look, that I would ever actually be loved just for me. I…I could not believe that. And I mean that’s the whole story of who God is, is that He loves us for exactly who we are because He created us in His image. Because He created us. He loves us, just for being us. And that was something that took a really long time to sink into my heart, because I had been shown one thing that that’s not how love worked. But human love is, you know, faulty, because we live in a broken…

Elisa:  Yeah.

Laura:  …world, and God’s love is perfect and… So, it just took me a really long time to figure out that difference and then to actually absorb it and believe it.

Elisa:  You know what else I’m hearing, Laura, and I…I resonate with this too (I know Eryn does), is that you lived in this two worlds, these two opposite worlds that pretended like they were integrated. Here’s your dad; he’s an usher at church, yet he has an apartment with a girlfriend. And, you know, here’s your dad, you know, he loves Jesus and…and, you know, he’s committed to Jesus and yet he leaves Jesus, so to speak, you know, off and on to go be with somebody else. He leaves you guys to go be with somebody else. And so, you come together on Sundays or other days or he comes to the dinner table, and y’all, you know, put on this face. And I really appreciate what you’re saying about your mom truly believing that she was protecting y’all, to…to keep this kind of façade, if you will, but this kind of normality…

Laura:  Yeah.

Elisa:  …she’s trying to build for you.

Laura:  For sure.

Elisa:  What did that two-world thing do to you? How did that shape you?

Laura:  I think it’s just that it didn’t give me a full understanding of who Jesus was, right? It was like we could go to church and hear that God was good, but then I still didn’t feel like I was good enough, right? Like, I couldn’t…I couldn’t make the full connection of this Savior, who truly loves us, who we’re truly forgiven. It was just kind of words. And I did, I believed that Jesus died for my sins. I never doubted that. I fully believed that. But I even remember in college, like, as far living two worlds, I had my Bible. I would read it every day. I would stuff it under my pillow, and then I would go do whatever the heck I wanted. I believed God. I loved Him. But I didn’t live like it. And I didn’t live like I believed anything in the Bible was true. I still lived like I had to earn affection, prove myself, do whatever it took to get noticed, loved, accepted.

Elisa:  So, you lived in two worlds too, kind of…

Laura:  Yeah, yeah.

Elisa:  You know? What you saw modeled became your real life too.

Laura:  Yeah.

Elisa:  Of, “Here’s my relationship with God, but then here’s the rest of my life.”

Laura:  Yeah.

Elisa:  And they’re two compartmentalized things.

Eryn:  I think it’s so brave for you to be able to vocalize that on a podcast. I’m just…I’m so honored to hear this part of your story. I lived a life like that too, where I compartmentalized my relationship with the Lord, not even realizing I was doing it. It was rooted out of believing a lie that I had to perform in order to be loved. And I had to do these certain things or act this certain way…

Elisa:  Yeah.

Eryn:  And it wasn’t that anybody ever told me that verbally…

Laura:  Right.

Eryn:  …but it was like some sort of lie that I started to believe when I was younger.

Laura:  Yeah.

Eryn:  That if I do these things, then this will make this true.

Laura:  Right.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Eryn: And it sounds like you’ve experienced that. So, I’m curious. Because when…when you’re aware of it, when you start to become aware of it, it’s like, “Oh…” And then you, like, start to feel, like, “Oh, my gosh. I feel so exposed.” But then from that awareness to absorbing the truth… I mean, take me through that. Because it’s a lot of behavioral habits that you’re having to unwire and…

Laura:  Yeah.

Eryn:  …and rewire and deconstruct and construct.

Laura:  So, I believe that God knew exactly what I needed. Like, He knows exactly what all of us need. And what I really needed was someone who loved me for exactly who I was or I wasn’t going to believe that that was a possible relationship with anyone, not even God.

Eryn:  Oh, yeah.

Laura:  God sent the man, who is now my husband, into my life. We had been friends in college, and he knew all of my baggage. And he loved me. And it was this crazy thing because every relationship I’d been in before I’d felt like I had to act a certain way and look a certain way. And if he was into sports, I’d pretend that I was really into sports, even though I wasn’t. And I would never let them actually see my true self. I was always a performance because I thought I had to be someone who they could love, since I wasn’t actually someone they could love. And my husband, he loved me so completely for who I was, knowing all the dumb awful things I’d done, knowing how goofy I was, knowing, like, the nerdy side of me and the clumsy side of me. And he just loved me. And it was just mind boggling to me. And…

Elisa:  Wow.

Laura:  …he was also a Christian, who had done a similar thing in college, where he still believed in God and still loved Jesus, but he kind of put that to the side to live his life. And when we started dating… One of our very first conversations was about God. And I know that God wasn’t just bringing us to each other, but bringing us back to Him through each other, which was this beautiful thing. But it took someone, Eryn, to answer your question (that was a long-winded answer), someone who fully loved and accepted me for who I was to believe that was a possibility.

Elisa:  Wow. How did things turn out with your dad? Is he still alive? Do you have a relationship with him today?

Laura:  He just moved in with another woman last month.

Elisa:  Are you parents not married any longer?

Laura:  No, they got divorced about ten years ago.

Elisa:  Okay.

Laura:  And I want to love my dad because Jesus tells us to love everyone. But I’m also trying to honor the fact that forgiveness and trust aren’t the same thing.

Elisa:  Oh, that’s good.

Eryn:  Whew! Where’s my notepad? I need to write this down.

Elisa:  Unpack that, would you…? That’s a line we don’t want to just gloss over. Wow. Unpack that, would you?

Laura:  Jesus tell us to forgive, right, seven times seventy times. And that took me forever to wrestle with. And I still wrestle with it, to be fully honest.

Elisa:  Sure.

Laura:  That I can forgive my dad for the mistakes that he’s made. But God has shown me that that is not a relationship that’s healthy for me to be in. So, I can call my dad on his birthday, and I can send him a Christmas gift. But for me to hang out and spend time with him is not healthy because he’s not honest with himself or with me or with anyone. And it’s hurtful. And I get to a very unhealthy place when I’m with him because of the damage that’s been done and that still continues to happen. So it’s okay for me to say, “Okay, I forgive you for what you’ve done.” I know Jesus better because of it. I appreciate my husband and his actual love for me so much more because of it. I’m able to tell people about how much Jesus really loves us because I’ve been through it and seen every facet of that. So there is definitely good that’s come of it. But I don’t have to trust my dad and tell him my secret and share with him my sob stories and my hopes right now. That’s not a safe thing for me to do. So, I can forgive him and be kind to him, but I don’t have to let him into my safe spaces.

Eryn:  I think you touched on something that so many people right now listening can really resonate with. And that’s, you can forgive somebody and have healthy boundaries that will protect the work that you’ve done and are doing. That’s doesn’t mean that you love them any less by not allowing them to cross the fence into your safe space.

Laura:  Yeah.

Eryn:  I just…I think that’s so amazing.

Laura:  I think it’s so important.

Elisa:  And I so appreciate what you shared in terms of how the Lord brought you out of this is the love of a man who came into your life and changed you. And yet real life is there’s still the love of your father that’s missing. And that is so honest, Laura, because we often think that when we come to know Jesus, bing! You know, everything’s just, like, resolved, and it’s wrapped up in a gorgeous box with a pretty bow on top. And you know, real life is often God promises and does meet the desires of our hearts. Sometimes it’s now. Sometimes it’s later.

Laura:  Yeah. Yeah.

Elisa:  Sometimes it’s not really in this lifetime. And I just so appreciate the…the real-life examples that you’re sharing. Thank you.

Laura:  Of course.

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Eryn:  And when we come back, Laura will talk about her love for music and how the lyrics found and what we may think are dead hymns are still not only relevant to this day and age, but can be life changing. It can help us see who God is and how He sees us. That’s coming up on God Hears Her.

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Elisa: If you haven’t already joined the God Hears Her email newsletter, now is the perfect time. Sign up today and we’ll send you a free digital ebooklet called “Longing to Love Us.” You’ll see how one woman came to understand the personal love of her Heavenly Father and how He lavishly loves each one of us as well. Go to godhears.org and sign up today. That’s God Hears Her dot o r g. Now, back to the show.

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Elisa:  One of the things that has boggled me as I just read your bio and was thinking about our chat and I was so interested in, is that somewhere I read that you can’t carry a tune.

Laura:  That is true.

Elisa:  Can’t sing at all. And…and yet you’re so attracted to hymns that you actually wrote a book about hymns. And I’m going, “What?!” That…that kind of…that kind of befuddled me. Talk about that, can ya?

Laura:  So, I will say one of the things that my dad gave me is a love for music. We grew up listening to Casey Kasem’s Countdown every Sunday.

Elisa:  I love that. Love that.

Laura:  America’s Top 40, for those of you who are old enough to remember. And he is an avid record collector, and our whole basement was filled with records. So, I grew up listening to everything and knowing every word to every Beatle’s song, even though, you know, they were from my dad’s era, not mine. But I grew up loving music. And I owe that love to my dad because he did give me this love of music. So that’s a gift that he gave me. But I’ve always loved music, all music. I listen to music all the time. The church I grew up in was very traditional, singing hymns every Sunday. The church I go to now is all awesome, cool, fantastic worship music. And even my 19-year-old son plays electric guitar in our worship band. So that’s a super cool thing too. Yeah. I love all music, but I cannot sing a note, and don’t ask me to, ‘cause your listeners will all turn off the podcast.

Eryn:  It’s so great. So, tell me. How did you get from growing up loving music and hymns to writing about hymns?

Laura:  So, actually it was this huge God blessing, as God works. Our Daily Bread was talking about writing a book about hymns. The editor at Our Daily Bread sent an email to my agent, who sent an email to me. And my agent is super cool. He used to be the pastor of my church before I went there, and I didn’t even know it. And now he lives somewhere else, and he’s a literary agent. But at the time he was pastor of the church I now attend. So, he sent me a hilarious email that said, “I know you go to one of those crazy churches, where they sing modern worship music,” the church that he started…

Elisa:  Crazy. Crazy.

Laura:  Right.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Laura: “But what do you think about writing a book on hymns?” And I was actually going to go see my oldest daughter play soccer that weekend. And I know I was going to be in the car, so I was like, “Okay, I’m just going to pray about this in the car and talk to God about it.” Like, “God, do you want me to write a book on hymns? What would that mean?” And oh, God just started flooding me with all these beautiful ways that hymns have impacted my life, just starting with that last Sunday. My son had been playing in the worship band, and we were signing All Hail King Jesus. And he broke into Crown Him with Many Crowns on his electric guitar in the midst of that song. And when he did that, I was just like, taken to my knees, like, just such a wash of emotion and memory, something down in my core about, “Yes, all hail King Jesus, because You’re the King of Kings. But yes, You should be crowned with many, many crowns, right? That’s, like, what you deserve.” And I think the marriage of that music and where it sits on my soul and then God started flooding other examples in my head. I’m like, “Yes, I want to write a book about hymns.” And so…

Elisa:  Wow.

Laura:  …I submitted my ideas, and the rest is history. So…

Elisa:  Wow. What have you…what have you learned? Are there some…some principles or some big popping ideas that you could call out, just a couple here?

Laura:  Yeah, so I dove into thirty hymns that are all public domains, so we could actually put the lyrics in the book. Because I think it’s so beautiful to have the lyrics there to be able to see them too.

Eryn:  Oh, wow.

Laura:  And I found that all the hymns that I really dove into had three overlying themes. One, that God is almighty, meaning He can handle anything. Two, is that He loves us unconditionally. And three, is that He’ll never leave us. And as you go over the literature, the hymn literature, those themes just keep coming back and are infused in almost all of them. And when I look at those three things, I know that I can face anything, right? Like, no matter what is coming at us, whatever hurt we face or disappointment we face or storm we’re in, if we know that God is the most powerful, almighty thing and He can handle anything, that He loves us, that He’s on our side, and that He will never abandon us in the midst of anything, whew! Then I’m good. And then you’re good. And then we can all rest in that.

Elisa:  You know, I am struck by… What is it? The irony? Or the great plan of God to plant in your heart a love of music from a father who was deeply disappointing. And in planting that gift in you, which is exactly what you called it, a gift from your earthly father, your heavenly Father called you forth into a purpose for you. And into…through you, a…a ministry to others. I…I just think it’s so important because so many of us want to throw out the pain in our lives, the hard things in our lives, the embarrassing, depleting, revealing things in our lives and think, “Okay, now God can come in and dwell. And now He can do something good.” But…but Laura, in your life God planted good in the soil of pain. And in the very soil of the gift that your father gave you, your heavenly Father planted a future and a hope. That blows me away. And you listened to it. And look what He’s done. He’s given you assurance. He’s given you favor. He’s given you a great love.

Laura:  He’s such a good, good Father. And it says in Scripture that He can…He will turn everything for good. And it’s true. He does. Every nugget of it. And it’s like you said at the beginning, not always how we think it’ll be or when we think it will be, but He does. He’s a good, perfect God. And He wants everything to be beautiful and fulfilled and fruitful and renewed and restored.

Elisa:  For the woman out there who is in a similar situation right now and is just like, snap! You know, “I have asked God to show up, and I don’t have a man who loves me the way Laura’s describing her husband loves her,” as an illustration of God’s love. And, “I still have to deal with the person who’s wounded me on a daily basis. And I’m exhausted by trying to keep the boundaries there,” and that you talked about, you know?

Laura:  Yeah.

Elisa:  And, “I’m longing to know that there is a God Who loves me and sees me and hears me just as I am.” Would you speak to her just for a minute, Laura? 

Laura:  Yeah. First off, we have to really focus on who we’re listening to for identity. I listened to my dad for way too long about who I was and what would make me matter. And people who are harmful or damaging in your life or anyone who tells you that you’re not enough is a liar, whether they are intentionally lying to you or whether Satan is using them to lie to you or… Even if it’s social media that’s lying to you about what other people’s lives look like, what your life should look like, how your life is missing. The truth is, no matter what the world tells us about how we should look or what we should wear, what we should eat or cook or what our kids should look like, our…what our relationships should look like…

Elisa:  Yeah.

Laura:  …God says we’re His. He says we’re his masterpieces in Ephesians 2:10. And a masterpiece means that we’re perfectly crafted exactly how He designed us to be. He tells us that we’re made in His image. He tells us that we’re His beloved daughters. We need to listen to that and cling to it. And that means it’s hard in those hard days. I’m not saying you can just listen to it and be like, “Cool. I’m a masterpiece. One and done.”

Elisa:  Yes.

Laura:  I…I still have stupid, dumb struggles and slip-backs, where I’m like, “Oh, my gosh. I’ve let everyone down. I’m not good enough.” That’s an honest thing that I still have to battle with. It’s not…it didn’t just get fixed because I learned that Jesus loved me.

Eryn:  Yeah.

Laura:  But I think for me, the three ways to stay in that truth is to read the Bible every day. Because it continuously points back to how much Jesus loves us, how much He’s there for us. I was just reading Mark this morning and the woman who broke that alabaster jar on His feet and anointed His feet. Everyone’s like, “Why did she do that?” And He’s like, “I love her.” People were talking about her for centuries. And we are. We’re still talking about her right now.

Elisa:  Love that, yup. Yup.

Laura:  That’s how Jesus us when other people are like, “That’s dumb. That’s stupid.”

Eryn:  Oh, yeah.

Laura:  “Why did you do that?” Those aren’t words He ever uses to describe us. Reading the Bible reminds us that. That He says, “Oh, no. Like, I love her. I want people to know all about her.”

Eryn:  Yeah.

Laura:  So, reading the Bible every day. Praying every day, because we need to talk to God too and say, “Who do you see me as?” Just ask that out loud and sit for a minute. And He’ll tell you how lovely you are, how wanted you are, how accepted you are. And then three, it’s really, really important to hang out with some core people you can truly trust and confide in. And that should be a small group of people. Having a core group of Christians, whose beliefs line up with yours, who will keep pointing you back to the truth of who you are, who will keep reminding you that you’re made in God’s image, who will keep reminding you of all of the ways that Jesus loves you no matter what. So those are the three things that I cling to, to hold onto my identity is reading the Bible, talking to Jesus, and having a very small but specific core group of people, who will help remind me of those truths.

Elisa:  So good.

Eryn:  That’s so good, Laura.

Elisa:  Laura, hymns are new to a lot of the younger generations. And sometimes the lyrics can be bizarre, just…just to put it out there. Just, you know, saved by the blood, and washed in the blood, and, you know, what a wretch am I? How do you help younger generations attach to hymns? Why do we need to keep thinking about them and open ourselves to hymns?

Laura:  So, I agree. Some of the language even…it can be like Old English. So, they’re words that we just aren’t even familiar with anymore, like, reading Shakespeare can be tricky at first. But I like to think of hymns as vintage, not as old fashioned.

Elisa:  Oh, that’s nice.

Eryn:  Yeah. I like that.

Laura:  They’re actually super cool and have so much… I think vintage things are even cooler and richer and snazzier than the new, like, mass produced things, right? And I think that’s how hymns are. Now, I love modern worship music too. And I think that there’s so many of the old hymns that actually modern worship music has used parts of and verses of and that… I think people are more familiar with the hymns than they even know, because they’ve been actually singing lyrics to them with a modern beat, and they didn’t even know it.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Eryn:  That’s a great point.

Elisa:  Yeah.

Laura:  But I think also so much of the hymns are just steeped in Scripture, like, My Hope is Built on Nothing Less is Jesus’ teaching from Matthew 7:24-27. That if you stand on the rock, then the storms won’t knock you down. and that’s what My Hope is Built on Nothing Less is. Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus is Hebrews 12:2, “Turn your eyes upon Jesus.” Like, it’s just so many of the hymns come straight from Scripture, and that’s why they’re so important.

Eryn:  Yeah.

Laura:  Because we’re actually singing Scripture and what a beautiful thing. And also there’s this richness that Christians for centuries and generations have been singing these hymns and proclaiming these truths about who God is and how He loves us. And there’s this beautiful, I think, richness that we, the overall body of Christ, we, the Church with the capital C, Church, can raise our voices in these songs of praise and worship that have been going on for so long. And there’s a really connection to the body of Christ and this great cloud of witnesses when we do that.

Elisa:  Oh.

Eryn:  Laura, is there a favorite hymn that you have?

Laura:  So, Amazing Grace is hands down my favorite.

[music]

Laura:  It is my life story. That God saved a wretch like me, and I was lost and now I’m found. And I was blind to who I was, and now I see that I’m loved and beloved. As you can tell, I can’t even say the lyrics without crying. And I can’t hear the song without sobbing, because that was Jesus’ plan for me. And it’s His plan for everyone listening to rescue us, to save us. His amazing grace is free. We don’t have to earn it. We don’t have to achieve it. It doesn’t matter how messed up, how blind, we are. He wants to swoop in and give us a hug and tell us how loved we are. So, yeah, amazing grace. 

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Elisa:  Amazing Grace is one of the many inspirational hymns that can help us process and articulate not just the deepness of God’s love, but also reveal the truth that God made us in His image.

[music]

Eryn:  Yeah, Elisa, it’s one of my favorites for sure.

Elisa: And before we close out today’s episode, just a quick reminder that the show notes are available in the podcast description. The show notes not only contain the talking points for today’s episode, but you’ll also find a link to connect with Eryn and me on social. So check out the show notes on our website godhearsher.org.

[music]

Eryn:  Thanks for listening. And don’t forget God hears you. He sees you, He loves you because you are His.

[music]

Eryn:  Today’s episode was engineered by Ann Stevens and produced by Mary Jo Clark and Daniel Ryan Day. And we also want to take a moment to thank Peggy and Bobby for their help in creating and promoting the God Hears Her podcast. Thanks, friends. You guys are the best.

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Elisa:  God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.