What It Means to be Second

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 126 – What It Means to be Second

Elisa Morgan & Eryn Eddy-Adkins with John Humphrey

John: We had a number of people that had struggled with addiction, substance abuse, alcoholism. And very different stories, but they had a similar theme to them; and to the point that when we first launched, many people thought that’s what we were about was we were more a counseling service for that. But, as time has gone on, we’ve… we’ve seen a little bit of lessening of that but a whole lot more on the anxiety and mental health side. Even within the Church, it’s a struggle, and people need to have answers when they come across those types of issues in their lives.

[Theme music]

Intro: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. Find out how these realities free you today on God Hears Her.

Eryn: Welcome to God Hears Her. I’m Eryn Eddy-Adkins.

Elisa: And I’m Elisa Morgan. What do you think of when you hear “to put God first?” Does serving come to mind? Telling your story? Or maybe you think of ways to put God first in your daily life.

Eryn: Today we are so excited to talk to the vice president of the I Am Second Ministry. John Humphrey has been with I Am Second since its launch in 2008, and he continues to help produce the films. He and his wife Kathleen have two daughters.

Elisa: Let’s start out our conversation by learning about John on this episode of God Hears Her.

Eryn: I came across I Am Second, and I experienced vulnerability that was new to me. And it was beautiful, and it changed me. And so I’m really excited that you are here with us today.

John: Well, thank you for having me. And, certainly, authenticity is at the heart of everything that we do. And so we encourage transparency with the people that we work with to tell their stories. And it’s not something that… that is easily done. So we’re very appreciative of those that go ahead and are willing to share their story and to have that transparency.

Elisa: Before we go deeply into the I Am Second mission — which we want to do cause I have a feeling you’re going to help us learn to tell our own stories better as well — tell us a little bit about yourself. You know where are you from, and what’s your life been like, and maybe a couple of your crossroads, and how’d you end up here?

John: Wow! That’s quite a journey…

Elisa: And be vulnerable…

John: …and I’ll…I’ll…

[Laughter]

Elisa: Just be vulnerable while you’re doing it. Okay?

Eryn: Just tell us…

John: All right, very good.

Eryn: …your whole life all real quick.

Elisa: That’s right. That’s right. Yeah. Authentically, yeah.

John: Well, gosh …uh… You know I grew up in a… in a midwestern-northeastern family. We were born in Ohio, lived most of my formative years in the Pennsylvania area, went to college down in the state of North Carolina. And that’s where I met my wife. But all throughout that journey there, I was drawn to sports. I went ahead and …uh… started on a career to have a career in sports media, sports athletic administration. And that’s the direction that I went into, but even along the way of that, I was drawn to stories within the sports context, because there’s something about sports that I could see the best in people. I was drawn to… to stories of redemption and stories of people who overcame odds, and that played out even in some of the projects that I got involved with early in my… my sports media career. Then I had the opportunity to go ahead and start my own company in media, and I was able to delve even deeper into that, but it got to the point where my business partner and I and our company, we decided that Okay, it’s been a good ten-year ride, but let’s go ahead and separate. And I went through a two-year period of: What is God going to do next in my life? And, you know, I had put in twenty-plus years into sports media, and I enjoyed it. And I felt that God had really placed me there, but I wasn’t able to move onto the next job, the next chapter. So I was consulting with companies, but I kept applying to sports network positions, major sports companies. And I would get up to the very last round and lose out to the internal candidate…

Eryn: Oh!

John: …It happened like four or five times in the… in a row…

Elisa: Yeah, yeah.

John: …And it was just … it was just crazy. And so I can… I remember it got to the end of one year, and I would just … went before the Lord, and I said, “Lord, I don’t know why You would do this, but if You want to end this run in sports, I’m okay with that. You know, I don’t know where You’d move me on to, but I just want to be obedient to what You have in store for me.

Eryn: Hm.

John: It was on… was about two months later that I got a call from a ministry friend who said, “John, we’ve just had this project come about in our ministry, and I think it has your name written on it. Would you like to come and talk to us about that?” And that was the I Am Second project. And…

Eryn: Wow!

John: …I’ve been now involved with it for 13 years, helped to get it launched, and stayed with it since. But that focuses in on my… my work journey.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

John: But I’m a lot more than my work.

Elisa: Sure.

John: And …uh… you know I’m a husband …eh… to a wife. We’ve been married for 38 years.

Elisa: That’s great!

John: …We have two daughters that are now grown and married and this year just had babies of their own.

Elisa: You’re a new grandpa!

John: So I’m now a grandfather.

Elisa: Yay!

Eryn: Aww!

John: Along the way, I came to know the Lord right before we got married, and… and that was … made such a huge impact on my life that I immediately threw myself into my faith. The different experiences that I’ve had in life have just layered on top of one another and allowed me to go ahead and to be in a position that I ha… am now, where I’m able to help facilitate people telling their own stories.

Elisa: I was really struck when you described your interest in sports as “an interest in redemptive stories.” I was like Wait! That’s like… doesn’t seem cohesive. I mean most people who talk about sports get into unique players and records, but you go to “redemptive stories,” you know. Help us understand how you choose the word “redemptive story” — those two words — to put with sports.

John: Well, you know, it’s… it’s just like any storytelling approach. You know somebody comes into the movie, or the scene, and they’ve got a problem. They’ve got an issue, and they’re looking for somebody to go ahead and to assist them to find the solution to their story. And, you know, that’s… that’s the tried-and-true method of storytelling. And who’s going to be that character that… that’s going to come in to assist them? Who’s going to be that helper? And we all have that in our lives. We all need that in our lives. For those of us believers, we’ve experienced that. And it’s a situation that, in sports, you can find that as well. It might be a coach. It may be another player. It could be somebody at a school that is assisting in… in the athletics department; but there’s somebody that’s going to enter into the story and help resolve whatever it… issue it is that the person has in their life.

Elisa: That helps me understand your lens, and so it’s through that kind of basic story outline of beginning, middle, and end… you know character with a conflict and a resolution, etcetera, redemption, that you have come to this ministry. So tell us what I Am Second is. What does that mean?

John: At its core, I Am Second means to be putting the things of Jesus ahead of yourself, and the… and the needs of others ahead of yourself. And so that’s the simple answer is to be following Jesus and allowing Him to work in your life to accomplish His purposes and serve the needs of others around you.

Elisa: So I Am Second is really keeping second things in second place and keeping first things —God — in…in first place.

John: Mm-hmm. I’ve had lots of people say, “Oh, well, gosh, it’s not I Am Second. You should be third, or you…

Elisa: Oh.

John: …you know. And I… I tell the story that, you know, I walk into my house when I was… when my kids were there. And I would be like 450th!

[Laughter]

Elisa: Right. Yes.

Eryn: That’s a really great way to put it. What does I Am Second mean to you personally?

John: A lot of different levels. You know if you look at it from the guiding principle level, obviously, it’s a great reminder. I… you know I have my wristband on. It’s a constant reminder for me, but it’s also a reminder for me to be sharing my faith with others. And so from that… as it’s a very much a guiding principle. When we look at the I Am Second activity that we’ve had here, it’s again something that I felt that …uh… that God has… had prepared me for. And to step in and provide direction and guidance when it was needed, when it was first getting started, and then to help be the hand on the tiller of activity that we’ve had to keep us focused and making certain that we accomplish our daily activities.

Elisa: Tell us how it works.

John: This is cinematography and filmmaking that we bring to bear on these. And everything that we do is very intentional. It’s… it’s to come up with a quality level that people don’t have to apologize for.

Elisa: Mm.

John: That was one of the standards that we wanted to hit, was that you could put this on a video and not have to apologize to someone, Well, it’s something that I came across, and …eh… I know the quality’s not that great but listen to it.

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Okay.

John: We wanted people to feel comfortable about sharing it with other people. The films themselves are first-person narratives, basically a person’s testimony. What we do, though, is we film the testimony, and we narrow the focus of what the… what they are… were really trying to communicate. But the end result is a film that’s usually what we call our “white-chair films,” because they’re sitting in a white chair.

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

John: That can be anywhere from five minutes to twelve, thirteen minutes for the most… most part. We’ve had a few others that have been longer, or we have other films that are in different formats. But the “white-chair film” testimony is… is basically the standard that we… that we go ahead and do.

Eryn: What I admire so much about the films that you guys have released is that they really are raw and honest. So what are some questions that you ask the person in the white chair, to bring that out, and for them to feel safe?

John: Well, here are some of the behind-the-scenes things that we do. Our questions – we do not ask typical questions.

Elisa: Hm.

John: What we do is everything that we do leading up to conducting the interview is done with intention. And we first create an environment that helps people focus and be reflective. And we do that in the way we have our room, on how we greet people, how we talk to them in some telephone sessions prior to it. Then, when they arrive, how we speak with them there; and so they know what they are getting into, and we try to lock down our interview so that it is very focused in on them. It’s a dark room, very few people in the room. We have one person asking questions. That person is off to the… off to the side, rather than in the front. They sit down in the chair. They’ve got one light above them. And so already, you know, they’re feeling like they are in the middle of everything.

Elisa: Hm.

John: And then we go ahead and we let them talk first.

Eryn: Hmm.

John: And they go ahead and share what they feel their story is. And then we listen very intently, and we kind of know where it’s going because we’ve already talked to them.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

John: But we listen what comes out of their mouth first, and then we start asking the questions for clarification after that and ask them to go deeper about certain things. So it…eh… you know we let them start the conversation. We don’t start it for them.

Elisa: Wow! That is so sensitive and provocative as well. I mean the way you first began to describe that, I felt like I was in a … a police officer’s interview room. And there may be some element of that because you’re actually accessing the truth in a human being.

John: Well, it could be. …um… One thing I didn’t say that it… was very important, but we pray before every…

Elisa: Mmm.

John: …every interview. It’s very deliberate in how we pray. And we pray that God will go ahead and bring clarity to their mind and allow them to perhaps even say things they’ve never thought about before.

Elisa: Wow. So the Holy Spirit’s super involved in that…

John: Absolutely!

Elisa: Can you give us some examples of some of the I Am Second stories? You know what are their topics? Or what’s been a pop that has surprised yall, or even the person, as they shared?

John: Well, you know, when we first started, just from the nature of some of the people that we were filming, we had a number of people that had struggled with addiction, substance abuse, alcoholism. And very different stories, but they had a similar theme to them; and to the point that when we first launched, many people thought that’s what we were about was we were more a counseling service for that. But, as time has gone on, we’ve… we’ve seen a little bit of lessening of that but a whole lot more on the anxiety and mental health side. Even within the Church, it’s a struggle, and people need to have answers when they come across those types of issues in their lives. And so we do go ahead and talk about the need for healthy counseling and how that can be helpful, but also of how important attitude and focus on the Lord and the Lord’s leading and prompting and acceptance and submission and all those different things and how that all works together.

Elisa: Can you share one of the stories that particularly impacted you?

John: [laughs]… Well, we have 150 of them…

Elisa: Yeah, yeah…

John: …and… and others. But I would say this: There are some stories that are just fun to be a part of.

Elisa: Mm.

John: You all know them. You’ve seen them. They’re celebrities, you know, the Mike Fishers and Carrie Underwoods and the Robertson family and Albert Pujols and, you know, singers and actors and… and all that sort of thing. And it’s fun to be around. And there are moments in there that I take away, and… and I file them away and say, “Yeah, that was a great moment.” But there are a number of people who maybe I didn’t know their… them for who they were, but their stories stayed with me. And then what’s… what’s really neat is, again, building that relationship with them over the years and following them as they’ve gone into other ministry activities.

Elisa: Mm.

John: You know one of those was a woman by the name of Karen Green, and Karen was here, and she was one of the very first that we filmed in Dallas-Fort Worth. And she …uh… had been a prostitute…

Elisa: Mm.

John: … And yet she had escaped that life. And, at the time, she was, on the side of a regular job, was ministering to those ladies and helping them through the… uh… judicial system and getting them placed into help, as to where they could move on and transition in life. So she… she did the film with us. Well, then she got fired from her regular job after the… the film came out…

Elisa: Oh wow!

John: …because of her past…

Eryn: Mm.

John: …And so then she said, “Okay, if this is the way it’s going to be, I’m going to go full blast into ministry.” And ever since that we’ve come alongside of her and helped promote what she does. And she’s got a thriving ministry called The Haven of Love. And it has…

Eryn: Mmm.

John: …really made a difference in the city. That’s…

Eryn: Wow!

John: …That’s one. Another is…

Elisa: It’s a good one. Mm.

John: …is a fellow by the name of Jim Monroe. And Jim came to us with a story about his bone marrow transplant. And the story … it was so much an example of what Christ did for us, in that his bone marrow had to be killed. Then he had this blood transfusion that he was given that regenerated life into him, that was provided by a young woman…

Elisa: Oh, that’s profound! Wow!

John: … And so, again, Jim’s a… a good friend that has come out of that association, and we followed his ministry activities and the jobs that he’s had since then and the impact that he has made. I could go on and on, but those are just two.

Elisa: So the goal of each story … maybe could you put that in the… the mission’s words. You know what are you really trying to demonstrate…

John: Sure…

Elisa: …in each film?

John: Well, the first thing comes… It’s…it’s inspirational.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

John: We want people to see an authentic story of a person who’s had a real encounter with Jesus and how that can transform lives. If a person is a believer already, and they encounter that story, we want them to be encouraged and to be motivated to continue to grow their own faith. If a person is seeking, or maybe they’re a new believer and haven’t yet, you know, really made a commitment to growing their walk, we want them to be curious and to keep watching films to the point that they ask some critical questions in their life.

Eryn: Yeah.

John: …And usually that comes when somebody is experiencing difficulties in their life…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

John: …And yet they see someone who’s in the exact same position they were…

Eryn: Yeah.

John: …and yet they were able to go ahead and, at their lowest point, find an… an alternative solution, something that they hadn’t thought of. And so when they see the example of someone turning to Jesus, to following His lead in their life, and it’s moving away from the desperate situation that they had been in, it gives them encouragement. And they say, “Maybe I can do that too.” And they are willing to go ahead and take that step in trusting Jesus.

Eryn: Mmm. That’s so powerful. What I love is that yall really do remind people that their story matters to God, all of it, every bit, every nook-and-cranny of it. What would you say to the woman that’s listening that feels like her story doesn’t matter? Or it’s… maybe she hasn’t hit a rock-bottom moment for it to matter?

John: Yeah.

Eryn: … Or she’s really having a hard time with embracing whatever her story is and sharing it with somebody.

John: So many people think they don’t have a story…

Eryn: Right.

John: …And they think that I’m not an alcoholic. I didn’t have issues with my parents. I didn’t go through these things. And so, you know, when I accepted the Lord, I just did it out of faith. Well, that’s a story.

Eryn: Yeah.

John: Because there was a moment in their life that they accepted the Lord…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

John: …And they can look back and … This is what we… how we teach people to tell their story is, you know, What were you before you made that commitment of faith? What are two words that describe you? It may not be that you were crazy or you were hurt, but all of us — our old selves — have words that describe what we were like. So what were those two words? In my case, I was prideful, and I was a control freak. I wanted to be in control…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

John: …But then somebody introduced me to Jesus. I met a man that introduced me to Jesus, and that Jesus was the One that was in control and not me. And then you turn your attention to “since then I have been…” And you pick two words that describe what your life has been since then.

Eryn: Mm.

John: So you can tell that story…

Eryn: I love that.

John: …in thirty seconds or less.

Elisa: What are the two words that describe you now, John?

John: [laughing]… I’m trusting in Jesus…

Elisa: Mm. Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

John: …And I won’t want to say that I’m humble, but I’m not as prideful. I’ve been serving rather than living for myself.

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

Elisa: Mm. An…and let me… let me try it, and maybe each listener can think about this. I would say before Jesus, I was alone and inadequate. And since I’ve found Jesus, and He found me, I’m in community, mainly with Him. He is my first Friend, and He is enough, which fills all the holes of my inadequacies.

John: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: Mm.

Elisa: You want to do it, Eryn?

Eryn: Yeah, I’m thinking.

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

Eryn: I would say I was prideful and self-sufficient. And I’m now dependent on Him and tender.

Elisa: So those are great examples and, boy, I think people listening are really going to connect. I’m also thinking about somebody who doesn’t have a super clear “before” and “after,” if you know what I mean. I mean it’s been more of a progression, a… a… a lifelong walk with God. And maybe even after you have that initial “conversion,” you know, change, when you’re not a Christian and you are; are there ongoing moments of discovery in your story, where you used to be and now you are?

John: Absolutely! And…and we actually tell some of those stories within the I Am Second films. It’s not always a conversion story that’s featured on I Am Second. We… we have those moments. I can remember we went into a film with Tony Dungy, Super Bowl winning football coach, and we thought that we were going to get a football story out of him. But the story we ended up editing and producing was about how he lost his job, how he was fired as a coach. And why was that important? Because there were a lot of men in 2009, when we filmed him, that were being fired or let go from their jobs. And so there’s moments throughout the… your life that you know that God in the Holy Spirit is alongside of you. Sometimes…

Elisa: Yes.

John: …that is a moment of triumph. Sometimes it’s a teaching moment that you… you… I learned this lesson. Or That’s when it really became real to me about what Jesus had done for me. So those are moments that you may be aware of that you can still share with someone else. We talked a little bit about the “before” and the “after.” There’re a lot of things I was before I was a believer that I can go back to. It doesn’t have to be just two words. And so when I encounter somebody, I have about six, seven, eight words that I can … I can play off of there.

Eryn: Yeah.

John: And that’s why it took me a little bit of time to be on the other side. But…

Eryn: Mm-hmm.

John: …but I used those that are the most relevant to the person that I’m talking to. And so my life can have impact on their life, and we have a common bond that we can share and talk about by referencing what we have experienced in our life. It doesn’t have to be the conversion story itself.

Elisa: He is first, and we are second. You know it’s interesting. I’ve listened and watched the films for some time, too, and I was at the Museum of The Bible this past year. And I ran across one of those white chairs, and I just … I stood in front of it going Oh my goodness! I wanted so badly to go sit in it. [Laughing] … I just wanted to plop my little self down in it, cause it’s … It’s a sacred space, you know, of… of story discovery and therefore redemption discovery, change discovery. But I still… I have it in my mind. I think I took a picture of it. I love it.

John: Well, did you get a chance to look on the back of it?

Elisa: You know maybe not. Tell us what’s there.

Eryn: What’s on the back, John?

Elisa: Is it fun?

John: Every person that sits in the chair signs the chair.

[simultaneously]

Elisa: That’s beautiful!

Eryn: I love that!

Elisa: Okay…

Eryn: Oh!

Elisa: … I think I missed that part. Oh well. [Laughing] I’ll have to go back.

John: Now, obviously, there’s more than one chair…

Elisa: Mm-hmm. Right. I gathered.

[Laughter]

John: Yeah. But the one up in the Museum of the Bible was the first chair…

Elisa: Aw.

Eryn: Oh!

John: … And therefore, it has the most signatures on the back.

Elisa: That’s beautiful!

Eryn: I love that. How many chairs do you go through?

John: Well, we’ve got three right now at this time…

Eryn: Oh, that’s good. That’s a quality chair. [Laughter]

Elisa: John, maybe could you just share: What is your prayer for women listening, in terms of this concept of I Am Second? What… what do you really hope they take away?

John: Well, first of all, to know that their relationship with Jesus is what … is the starting point and what matters, and that they lean into that. And I can… I know this from experience: you lean into that and let Him show you the next steps in life — not the final step in, you know, the… ultimately that you want to get to, but the next steps in life. You know, heh, with my daughters as they’re going through being new parents, you know, sometimes it’s just best for them to look and get through the day…

Elisa: Amen!

[Laughter]

John: Yeah.

Elisa: …That’s a wise grandpa right there.

John: You know don’t worry about what it’s going to be a year from now. Worry what it is about today, and just enjoy today…

Elisa: Mm-hmm.

John: …And …uh… be obedient to what God has in store for you and your… your child that day. An… and it’s the same thing for any woman, any man. Take those steps of obedience on a daily basis, and He will go ahead and provide the ultimate destinations for you. So that’s… that’s one thing. And… and I would also say that a concept of being second is akin to serving, when you really get down to it. I mean we serve all the time. I serve all the time. You know there’s my family. I have to serve my family. I serve here in the office. I serve when I’m at church. I serve in my community. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s got to be public serving, but to be placing the needs of others in front of yourself, that’s the example that Jesus wants us to follow. And to be in their lives and to serve them, and to understand that it’s… it’s not a chore. It’s a privilege of… that you get to partake in, that people, by allowing you to serve them, you know, that they’re giving you a privilege of helping out their life. And so, you know, that’s what we look at from an I Am Second standpoint, going back to the story analogy. We just feel very privileged that when people enter into the I Am Second ecosystem, and they encounter our films, and they watch a film and it helps to give them inspiration, or it helps them to make a decision in their life, or it brings them to a place where they accept Jesus as their Savior, we feel very honored and privileged that we have been that helper on that journey, that God has enabled us to help them move on and to follow Him deeper.

[Theme music]

Eryn: I am so thankful that we had the opportunity to speak to John about what it means to be second to God, and how important it is to share our story.

Elisa: Me too, Eryn. Be sure to check out the I Am Second Ministry and their videos. You can find a link to their website and more on the website at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.o.r.g.

Eryn: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget: God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[Music]

Elisa: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Mary Jo Clark and Jade Gustman. We also want to thank Daniel and Criscynthia for all their help and support. Thanks guys.

[ODB theme]

Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.