What It Means to Say Yes

God Hears Her Podcast 

Episode 218 – What It Means to Say Yes with Brenda Palmer 

Eryn Eddy-Adkins & Vivian Mabuni with Brenda Palmer 

[Music] 

Brenda: In the sitting and the waiting, even if I feel like I’m not hearing, it’s like I still can sense that He’s here. I’m not getting any answers or relief, but there is a trust that I have in the God He’s been that gives me the capacity to wait when I feel like He’s not saying anything. And I’m like, You’ve never left me. So even though it feels like You are absent right now, I’m just gonna sit here until You make me aware of where You are in this. 

[Theme Music] 

Elisa Morgan: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through Scripture, story, and conversation at GodHearsHer.org. God hears her. Seek and she will find. 

Eryn: Hey friends, we now have a study guide to go along with our podcast episodes that you can download or print to fill out when you listen. Make sure you get yours on our website to follow along with the episodes. Now let’s dive into this conversation. 

Vivian: All right, we are in for a treat! Eryn, I want you to meet my dear friend, Brenda Palmer. Brenda is a traditionally published author. She is a podcaster, she is a preacher, she’s a speaker. She has a heart for God. And I have loved knowing her in real life. I have loved watching her live out her life mission, which is about helping to inspire others to say yes to God. Brenda lives in Los Angeles, but she hails from Chicago, and we get to hear all about her. So Eryn, I’d love for you to meet Brenda. Brenda, this is Eryn. 

Eryn: Yes! 

Brenda: Hi! 

Eryn: I’m so excited to meet you, Brenda! 

Brenda: Yes, same. Thank you guys for having me. I’m excited to be here. 

Vivian: Can you just share with us a little bit of your background, your spiritual journey story? 

Brenda: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Originally from Chicago, the best city in the world, and no arguments. [Laughter] But I grew up a PK. I’m the youngest of ten. I have a blended family, but I’m the only child my parents have together. For the majority of my life, I can always remember my parents, if they weren’t pastoring, they were always in some level of leadership role. When I was about 14, my dad started a church, a smaller church, very like community centric. So they had a community center. We ran summer camps. Majority of my dad’s church was a bunch of kids when it first started. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: So I was the oldest kid. I did all the things in church from pick the worship songs to help my mom and lead the youth ministry. So I grew up in ministry and … and I, to be honest with you, wanted no parts of it.  

Eryn: Yeah. 

Brenda: I was like I cannot wait to get out of this. Not cause it was terrible. I think my parents did a really good job of allowing me to have balance. I was always able to like participate in sports and like kind of be exposed to a normal childhood. I didn’t feel pressured like: they chose this, so now this is like the consumption of my life. But I still didn’t want any parts of it. Like, I didn’t wanna be a pastor. So I don’t wanna be… [laughing] No. I was like, y’all can have this. This is great for you, but I wanna do something else. And so I did. In college, I pursued a career in entertainment, so I studied mass communication in undergrad. And then I went to Syracuse and studied television, radio, and film with the hopes of becoming like a producer, a director. And then life didn’t turn out how I wanted it to. I started the move to LA after graduate school, and just things started to fall apart little by little. And I don’t know if it was fear or wisdom, but I was like, I’m not built to live in my car. And LA is just not a place you go without a solid plan. And so I decided to stay in Chicago. And I would take like little jobs just so I could learn the industry. My first job was we did a plate shoot on a show called “Modern Family.” And we sat in the airport for 16 hours just because they needed it for two seconds of a FaceTime call. And I was like, this is Hollywood, because why do we have to see here for 16 hours? It’s going to be on there for five seconds. I didn’t understand that. And they’re like, “it needs to look like she’s really in an airport.” I was like, “okay.” 

Eryn: [laughing] Okay. 

Brenda: I was like… I just started like doing little things. And while doing that, um, I started serving at my church. Like I started just doing social media, which then grew into a full-time role. And I started running, uh, social media for the church. And then that turned into like a Creative. And you know how church is. They find out what you can do and then plug you in. And so I started leading things. And I started leading young adults. And then I started about 2017, I was 27, and I started to feel the call of God on my life. And I ran. I started to prove to God that I was not the person He wanted to use.  

Eryn: What did that look like for you? Running? 

Brenda: Running looks like, uh, I remember going to a wedding with some college friends, and I remember going on a binge, like, I got drunk, I got high. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: I remember being in the backseat of my car rummaging for like I had the munchies. And I’m like, this is a new low… 

Vivian: Mm. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Brenda: …especially cause I wasn’t doing those things at all. But I… I don’t know, there’s something about that call that you know it’s the real one. Like, it’s the one where it’s like, God’s like you, you think you can run, but now’s the time. 

Vivian: Hmm. Mm. 

Brenda: Almost like, I want a return on my investment. And I could feel the… the seriousness of it. And I just was like, this is not what I wanna do. And I’m gonna prove that I’m not the one You want. And I remember getting back home and feeling, like sensing the presence of God so much more than before. And I kept going like, You’re not mad? Like You didn’t change Your mind? And I think that moment made me want to pursue a God who wouldn’t change His mind even when I wanted Him to… 

Eryn: Wow. 

Brenda: … Even when I tried to do what I thought was the worst things I could ever do to disqualify me from Him calling me. He’s like, when you get done, you’ll know I factored in all of these things. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: And I still made a decision about you before you were even formed in your mother’s womb. And I think that Scripture became real to me cause I saw God pursue me more. And I think from that moment I started to get really serious about the Lord. I think my journey of “Yes,” I would say kind of started there cause I started just saying yes. Not completely, cause He told me to move to LA, and I didn’t. [Laughter] Out of what I thought was loyalty to the place I was serving. I didn’t really think they would be okay if I left because my hands were in so many things. And now I can name that as pride, to think that I would love God’s church more than Him… 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: … And I wouldn’t be obedient because I thought it would fall apart without me.  

Vivian: Okay. So your journey to LA, you finally said yes. Tell us about that. 

Brenda: I moved to LA, and not really having much of a plan, I slept on an air mattress in my friend’s living room for my first four months, which is very uncomfortable cause you have to go to bed when everybody else goes to bed. And you have to wake up before everybody wakes up. And I’m like, okay Lord, this is really struggle life. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Brenda: …um… I just… Yeah, and then I freelanced a lot for the first couple of months. And then by April of 2019, I started working at “Better Together” as a producer, which for me was my dream job. And then in hindsight I can see like God was trying to show me who I would become, and I had no idea. And so I worked at “Better Together.” I started freelancing as a producer. I produced a couple of shows. Then the pandemic happens, and I end up running head of production at The Potter’s House One LA and kind of helping them with that transition of going to everything virtual. And I thought I was in my groove. It feels like the height of my career. I’m working a lot. And God’s like It’s time to go. And I’m like, where are we going? Like this is… this is what happens in LA. We chase our dreams, they start to come true, and we live them out. I remember feeling like a… a season of… Like I always get feelings of transition, like God starts to disrupt things because I’m fiercely loyal. He makes it almost impossible for me to stay in a thing. And I’m like, God, this doesn’t make sense. … 

Eryn: Mm-hmm. Yes, I identify with that. 

Brenda: …Yeah, it’s like, cause girl, you won’t ever leave… 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. 

Brenda: … So let’s figure this out. 

Eryn: Yep. Get familiar with endings! 

Brenda: Absolutely! I… I have. Now it’s hard… it’s hard to embrace things cause I’m like, is this going to end soon? 

Eryn: [Laughing] I know! 

Brenda: … Like trying to find balance of like, I don’t wanna get too happy cause in a minute God’s gonna be like, “mm-hmm I need that.” 

Eryn: Uh huh. 

Vivian: Oh, oh! 

Eryn: Yep. 

Brenda: So it’s like trying to find balance. So I’m just… I’m learning to just be present. Like, today is a good day. Today I’m here, and today I don’t have to leave. 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn: Love that. It’s so true, so good. 

Brenda: And so I went on a fast, just cause I wanted clarity. And my friend and I, we started praying. We were just like, “we believe the Lord’s gonna make it clear by April 1st.” March 30th, I get off of a prayer call, and I get a random LinkedIn message, which I don’t actually check those messages. So it was… it was kind of interesting that I got it. And it was from a pastor, John Hanson, in Marietta, California. And he’s like, “Hey, I know this is, you know, almost like a lottery. I don’t think you’ll respond to this, but we’re expanding our senior leadership team and want to know if you or anybody else is looking for their next.” 

Eryn: Hmm 

Vivian: Oh! 

Brenda: And I was like This is like too random to be random. Like cause I don’t know him. I never… And when I saw Marietta I was like, I’m not moving to Georgia. Like … [laughter] … cause that… I didn’t even know there was a Marietta, California. I’m like, My Lord… 

Eryn: I don’t either. Yep. Yep. 

Brenda: …that’s not You! That’s not You! 

Vivian: Marietta, Murietta. 

Brenda: Yes. 

Eryn: Two different spelling, but yes. 

Brenda: Yeah, cause they call… they call it “Murr Town.” I’m like, Okay, God. At the same time, I’m getting the message… Stephanie’s calling me with this random thought. Right? She’s like, “what if we moved you out of production and raised you up as a small-groups pastor?” I’m like, “what is going on right now?” What I recognize in the moment is that God is now highlighting there’s more than what you’re doing. I could hide in production. You know, I would host every now and then, but it wouldn’t… It didn’t require me to do anything that I’m currently doing. And so I recognized that God’s like, okay, there is a shift because of who you need to become. And so I went to visit that church, and it was predominantly White. And I’m going, Lord, where are we going? What’s happening? But I felt such a peace. And He’s like, this is where you need to go. I went through an interview process. I started working there June of 2021. And there were just so many things that confirmed it. Like, um, my pastor at one… He…he’s my spiritual father. He ran… I was on vacation. He’s like, “Hey, let’s hop on a call.” I’m like, “For what?” He’s like, “I want to check in. Let’s FaceTime.” I’m like… God’s like, yeah, cause today you gonna have this conversation and tell him what I’m saying. And I did. I told him, I said, “I think God’s calling me to this place.” And he said, “Hey, here’s the thing. Callings are not conference calls, and you don’t have to consult with everybody. If that’s what the Lord’s telling you to do, then that’s what you do, and I support it. And you can always come back home if it doesn’t work out.” And he gave me his blessing. I cried so hard. I was like, “I don’t wanna leave. This is my family. Like I don’t wanna go.” 

Vivian: Oh, Brenda. 

Brenda: And I went kicking and screaming. And God was like, leave LA in LA. And so I had to walk away from all of the productions I was doing. And I served that church faithfully for six months with no other things. If… And people who know me know that’s unheard of. I always have five jobs. I always need to do five things at the same time. I started in June, and by September 1st, 2021, I preached my first sermon. I had never done that before. Pastor John’s like, “you wanna preach?” I’m like, “huh?” 

Eryn: You are like, nah, I don’t know! 

Brenda: I was like, “I… I never did that before. You think I could do that? I just have a podcast. And that’s all I got.” You know? And so I just remember God sa… I was like, God, I don’t… I don’t have an idea of what I’m doing right now. And I just remember God saying, this is Our relationship and what We do every day. And you get the opportunity to invite people in it and teach them what I’m teaching you. 

Eryn: Hmm. 

Brenda: And I’ve held onto that. I’ve preached at some of the biggest places I would’ve never dreamed of. And every moment it’s always, “this is an overflow of the relationship I have with God, and I just want to invite you into that.” 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, I love, um, hearing you preach and teach. It’s so fun because I get to see the Brenda that’s not made up like just the rolled-out-of-bed. Brenda, in seminary class, Brenda. 

Brenda: Which is the normal Brenda… 

Vivian: Which is the normal Brenda! 

Brenda: … That’s me all the time, for sure! 

Vivian: … And then I’ll see you like glammed up, and I’m like, Whoa, Brenda! [Laughing]  It’s just so… It’s pretty astonishing! I’ve loved how you’ve remained grounded in some really… like some real foundational, like take-you-the-distance kind of truths. And one of them being the joy of “Yes.” Like there really is this idea, The Journey of Yes, the joy of yes. This sense of living surrendered is the real foundational piece, because when God says to go, we go. And when He tells us to stay, we stay. And we don’t try to rush ahead of God, and we aren’t laggers either. Like we just… we’re seeking to really live in intimacy with the Lord and hearing from Him. Like what are maybe a couple other like pillars that you are anchoring in? And how is your engagement with the Bible… how does that play a part as well? 

Brenda: Yeah, I think one of the anchors is rest. And that rest is productivity. I think when you are high achieving, rest feels like a betrayal to the assignment. So, I know if I stop, what’s going to happen to all the things I’m holding? And I’m like, God’s gonna hold them same way He’s holding you while holding them. 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Brenda: And that’s a lesson I had to learn. Like I think about my parents and how I grew up. I have no context for rest. My parents have retired and started back working and retired again. And I think the only reason my mom doesn’t work now is cause the… the technology gap has gotten a hold of her. She’s like, “I don’t understand why we can’t write on paper.” So now I’m like, “good, sit down somewhere.” And so, learning that like rest is holy… 

Vivian: Mm. 

Brenda: …um… And that I actually cannot serve God in fullness if I… it’s not coming from a place of rest. 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. 

Brenda: And so I definitely have… am holding onto that. Seminary has changed the game for me and how I see Scripture and how I hold it. And so when I think about just the Bible, I’m like falling in love with it all over again. 

Eryn: Hmm. 

Brenda: I was really nervous about seminary. I thought I was gonna lose my intimacy. And shout out to Denver Seminary. It’s just a holy place! And I feel like I never cried so much in a class. …um… When we were starting off, it just… it was really beautiful how knowledge expanded my intimacy. It deepened it. 

Eryn: Mm-hmm. 

Brenda: I was like, I love God from this place of experience. And now I like, knowledge-wise, have more love, like… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Brenda: … I think my heart is to just always remain in awe of God, and awe of what He shares with me, and never take it for granted. I never want this to feel like a job or an occupation. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: I always want it to feel like a relationship. And anytime I get to share is an overflow from that. And I think like that’s what… I think that’s how I hold it. So I think when it’s time to share hard truths, it’s like I have like this key to life, and I don’t want to hold on to it, and you not get it, and you miss out on this intimate experience with the Lord. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

[Music] 

Jade Gustman: Hey friends. I’m just popping in to let you know about all of the God Hears Her devotionals, journals, Bible studies, and other encouraging resources we have to help you stay close to God’s truth no matter what you’re facing. Be sure to check those out at GodHearsHer.org. Now back to the show. 

Eryn: What would you say in the transition periods of your life, where it’s like moving and jobs and opportunities and, you know, invitations to different types of job opportunities? Was there ever a moment that you felt like either you couldn’t hear God anymore, like it was silent? Or you were in waiting? Or that He wasn’t listening to your cries? Was there ever a time in the transition period that you wrestled with that? 

Brenda: Yeah. I think like financially, I was coming off a hard year after challenging a lot of things within the Body of Christ that kind of sent me into like a depression; cause I’m like, I’m serving the Body, and the Body has turned on me. Hey, God, I don’t wanna do this anymore. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Eryn: Yep, I get that. 

Brenda: And I… I decided that in my heart. And I really did. I stopped doing everything. I stopped saying yes to engagements. I just sat down, which is not maybe the most fiscally responsible thing to do, but I also didn’t think it… 

Eryn: But the most healing, maybe. 

Brenda: Yes! No, it was. And I don’t think it was smart for the attitude that I had to be showing up on people’s platforms, because everybody would’ve got a piece of my mind. And so I think, like I understood I needed to sit down. [Laughter] But then the sit down became like a, you know, God, I’m over it. Like I don’t wanna do it, kind of thing. And then I started this year off with just like an unknown. And I’m like, God, I feel like every time I say surrender, like I’m surrendering, life gets worse and I need help with that because I don’t understand it. I’m like, I feel like we’re going backwards. And why can’t I… like, I’m not even saying the things I want. Like the bare minimum of things is hard to produce, and I don’t understand this. And I think I’m one of those people, like when I check out, I’m done. I’m laying on the couch, I’m not talking to anybody, including the Lord. I don’t wanna talk. Don’t look at me, don’t text me. I don’t wanna do anything. I’m just pouting and throwing a tantrum. And I remember having a really honest conversation with God, like asking Him like, what is going on? And feeling like He wasn’t responding. I think I just sat. And I think there is this level of patience that comes with desperation. When it’s like I don’t have another option other than to sit and wait. And I think in the sitting and the waiting, even if I feel like I’m not hearing, it’s like I still can sense that He’s here. You know? I’m not getting any answers or relief, but there is a trust that I have in the God He’s been that gives me the capacity to wait when I feel like He’s not saying anything. And I’m like, You’ve never left me. So even though it feels like You are absent right now, I’m just gonna sit here until You make me aware of where You are in this. And I think I just took a journey, and I remember Him telling me to open up my voice memos. And He led me to the word I got in 2017, and I played it. And I played one from 2018, and I can hear people giving me words that speak to what I’m currently living in. And I start bawling. And one lady, like, prophesied that I would write a book. And the other lady’s like “Your going to be a bridge for people who want Jesus but can’t hear them. And when they hear you, they’re gonna… they’re gonna find access to Jesus.” 

Vivian: Wow! 

Brenda: And I started bawling, and I feel like God just whispers. And he says, I’ve always kept My word. 

Vivian: Mm. 

Eryn: Hmm. 

Brenda: And I’m like, You’re right! You really did! because that was like seven years ago. And I was not this person that I am today. But You saw… like, I just had this really like kid moment of like, I’m so sorry for doubting You! like, and just start bawling.  

Eryn: It was like a sweet conviction. 

Brenda: Yeah, but it, I… it turned a corner for me. 

Vivian: Hmm. 

Brenda: And I… I started to ask Him like, what’s the difference between now and 2023? And He’s like, you stopped believing. And I was like, yeah, I got… I gotta hold that; cause I was busy telling God about my problem with my problem and never inviting Him in to solve the problem. 

Vivian: Oof. Wow! 

Brenda: I… I was entitled like, why do I gotta go through this? Why is this happening? What am I doing? Matthew 6 tells us not to worry about what we’ll eat, drink, or wear cause that’s what the pagans do. So that means He already has it handled. I should just invite Him into it. 

Eryn: Hmm. 

Brenda: And I was like, you know what, God? You’re right. You are right. I have not told You. I have not invited You into the problem. I just been complaining about the problem. So let’s talk about the problem. Okay? Let’s just talk about it. Okay. Here it is, okay. And I started to quote that. I started to say, Matthew 6 tells me not to worry… 

Vivian: That’s right. 

Brenda: Lord, I don’t wanna worry, but here’s the date. Okay, here’s what we got… 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. 

Brenda: …The math is not mathing, so let’s make it math. And I literally, it… it happened. Like I had some interesting lows this year, like… 

Vivian: Mm. 

Brenda: And I just remember like sometimes like, to be completely transparent, like I lead a Bible study every week. It felt like “if you love Me, feed My sheep.” Like that’s literally how I felt this year. And so it’s in downtown LA. I live north… like north in the valley, like near Calabasas. And I don’t have a car right now. So I also attend church in downtown LA. So that’s Sunday and Monday I gotta get to downtown LA. So some weeks it’s like, I can’t do both so I gotta watch church online. And I’m like, God, this don’t make sense. I need to go to church, and I need to have Bible study. Make it make sense. And so it would just be like, I would see Him in little ways, like work that out where I could do both. And I remember going to Bible study. And in the middle of my Bible study, a friend randomly text me and goes… I hadn’t talked to her in like a month. She’s like, “do you have money?” And I’m like, “what?” She’s like, “do you have enough money?” She’s like, “I just got a sensing out of nowhere that you don’t have enough money.” And immediately sends me money. I don’t even have to answer the question. And I’m like, okay, God. Two days later, I’m talking to someone, and they go, “can I Zelle you” the exact amount of money I needed to cover the rest of my rent. Like… it was like the moment I invited God. And He’s like, I already have provision for this, but you’re not asking… like, cause you… there’s a level of unbelief here that I won’t show up for you. 

Vivian: Mm. 

Brenda: And I think even like the lessened engagements was because God’s like, you think that’s your source. And I’m gonna prove to you that even without that you’re still gonna be provided for. I’m the source! 

Eryn: Ooh. 

Brenda: And so I think like that’s been the lesson. It’s like, that’s the thing, like God’s the Source! And so even when I have to do things that would disrupt that, He’s like, you ain’t gotta worry about that cause they not your source. I am. And I think that is the biggest lesson. I think after having that moment, I’ve seen God like continuously go, Hey, I’ve been the one doing this the whole time. Thank you for finally embracing that so we can do what we need to do. 

Eryn: I love that! 

Vivian: That is gold! Those are hard won… hard won truths The hard-won ones are the ones that get in us, and then we live out of them. That’s that transfer from head knowledge to the heart knowledge, the living out. And I think a lot of us are very uncomfortable with letting go and… 

Brenda: Sure. 

Vivian: …really surrendering control. Like we think that we’re in control. We’re really not, but we really think we are and we grasp onto whatever we can to try to buoy that false belief. And what you’re describing is really… You’re needing to live out the very message that you’re trying to preach, which there’s integrity there,  

Brenda: Yes! 

Vivian: … And I love that about you, that you’re not gonna be fake about it, you know? 

Brenda: Mm-mm! 

Vivian: And so I appreciate that, and I also think, for our community listening, it’s like that’s convicting. It’s like it’s one thing for us to say we want to say yes to God and trust Him. It’s a whole other thing to really bring that in and to not only surrender control, but also bring Him into the hard things … 

Eryn: Yeah. 

Vivian: …and wait when He’s not immediate. Like I think that there’s also that transactional sense and kind of what you alluded to, Brenda, with entitlement, that our pride and our… our posturing. Like we think that something is wrong if we experience pain of any sort, whether it’s physical or emotional. It’s like… and the prayer is “remove it!” 

Brenda: Yeah. 

Vivian: And there’s not an understanding that there might be things bigger going on than we understand. And those who say “yes” then are able to experience something richer and deeper. So this is a good reminder for me. Thank you, Brenda. This is… 

Eryn: Yeah, me too. 

Vivian: … yeah, timely. 

Eryn: I have a question for both of y’all. What does it look like to, you know, you… You shared, like bringing God into the problem to solve it. 

Brenda: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn: …I think oftentimes we think by just complaining and crying and weeping about it, that that’s like us bringing Him in. But it’s really just, in relation, just expressing. What does it practically look like to bring Him in to a problem that you’re wrestling with, that you really need relief from? 

Brenda: Ooh! I… I think that’s a really great question, because I think the assumption would be to give God your list of what you want to happen. And I think it’s actually the complete opposite for me. Proverbs 3:5-6 is what it looks like practically. Right? It’s like I’m going… I always say I live life open handedly. It’s like I have this in my hand. I really, really need an answer to this God. But to bring Him into it is literally me saying, but whatever You decide, whatever You think is best, could You condition my heart to be okay with that?  

Vivian: Mm! 

Brenda: Because if not, it’s still a place of entitlement. It’s going, here’s this problem. Solve it like this.  

Eryn: Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. 

Brenda: And, and to Viv’s point, it’s like, what if he’s not gonna get me out of it? Bruh. He did not get me out of it! 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Brenda: … because getting me out of it would be like, great, go. You can go get this job. You could go… You know what I’m saying? Go provide for yourself. It’s like, no, He just… I feel like He just opened my eyes to what He was already doing. And I’m like, oh, so… Because He’s like, no, your calling in life is to live dependent on Me.  

Vivian: Mm 

Brenda: And so to bring God into it is literally to bring the thing that I desire to His feet… 

Vivian: Mm. 

Brenda: And say, I know I want this to go this way, but I trust You enough to relinquish my idea of how this is gonna turn out and embrace Yours. So what does that mean? I need… I need to mature. You gotta grow me up. Something I pray all the time is like, God, give me Your eyes. Give me Your perspective of this thing. Because there’s a way I see it, and there’s a way You see it. And I know I’m not gonna get out of this the right way if I keep looking at it with my eyes. 

Vivian: Mm-hmm. Good. 

Brenda: … And so the moment I have God’s eyes on it, it’s like I can see like, oh, He’s doing this cause He’s trying to grow me up. And you might not know that until five years down the line and you go… 

Vivian: Mmm. 

Brenda: … That’s why that one thing didn’t… cause I needed it for this moment cause God has an end game. 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Brenda: And whatever it takes for us to become the person who can sustain that end game, He’s going to do what He needs to do. And so I think like it is the… the three Hebrew boys. Like even if He doesn’t… 

Vivian: Yeah. 

Brenda: … I’m still gonna always ride with Him. And so I think there is this relinquishing, there is this… an exchange that says, I’m really concerned about this, but I’m gonna bring God into this. And it’s like, I need Your eyes, I need Your perspective. You tell me what You want cause clearly my way happening anyway, [laughter] … so I might as well just… This isn’t working. It is not… it’s not working out at all. So instead of ending up disappointed, like, okay, God, what’s like… what’s Your move? You know what I’m saying? Like… Because that’s the thing, I think, that we forget is like a call into obedience is really an invitation to do life with God. 

Vivian: Yeah.  

Brenda: And it…it’s why it doesn’t make sense. It’s why you don’t know all the things. It’s cause He wants you to walk with Him. It is no better way to walk with the Lord than when you don’t know. I’m like I don’t know where this is going to come from. I don’t know how it’s going to go. It’s like, that’s why you feel depressed. It’s not so you could be depressed and be in the bed and be crying. It’s so, He’s like, Hey, hey, I’d like to do this with you. I’d like to be in partnership with you. 

Vivian: That’s right. 

Brenda: I think it’s First Corinthians, like 1 and 9. And he says, “God will do this.” 

Vivian: Mm. 

Brenda: He’s just inviting you into partnership. Like, and that helps me. It’s like God’s gonna do it. It’s just my surrendering and submitting to His plan and like, all right, cool. Let’s roll with it. And when you say yes to God, the weight ain’t on you. I don’t gotta figure it out.  

Vivian: Yeah. 

Brenda: So please, by all means, take it. 

Vivian: Yeah, yeah. Yep. I have two little pictures that come to mind when you’re sharing this, Brenda. It’s like when Jesus multiplied the loaves and the fishes. He didn’t make piles of loaves and fishes, like it literally… I mean, He could have, like everyone grab a tray and we’re gonna walk through and 5,000, 10,000 of you just pick up your fish and your… But it was this constant like, you know, I’m thinking about they’re in groups of 50, and they’re probably looking over and that group got some food. Is there gonna be enough? And in it, it was like He provided. And there were 12 baskets left over. Like God is an abundant God. I forget that often. And so I… I start to covet. And I start to think, well, He’s blessing this way. Why isn’t He blessing me this way? And it can become a comparison thing. The other thing is I was blessed to be a part of a twelve-step group for many, many years. And step 11 of the 12 steps is: Prayer for the knowledge of the will of God and the power to carry that out. Which then is that same idea of surrender. Like it’s not the demand. It’s not the “fix it now.” It really is: I’m praying for the knowledge of Your will and the power to carry that out. And I think those kinds of prayers of surrender give God the greatest joy, because He already sees down the road. Like your yes is opening up so many possibilities you have no idea about. So that is so beautiful. Brenda, I would love for you to close us out, and would you be praying for the woman listening today who is struggling with her circumstances? And she’s wanting to say yes, and she’s scared. Would you pray for her and over her to close this out? 

Brenda: For sure. Uh, Most gracious God, we thank You that we get the privilege to call You Abba Father. Oh, _______ God, I just thank You for this time and this reminder in this conversation that You are El Roi. You are the God who sees and the God who can be seen. Oh God, for those of us who are afraid to step into a journey with You, God, maybe it’s because of past experiences that yielded us disappointment. Or if it’s because we just don’t know enough, God, I pray that in this moment You would give us the courage to take a step closer towards You. That, God, we wouldn’t be enamored with the ‘what ifs’ or ‘what could be,’ but that, God, we would fix our eyes on You. That we would take one step closer just because You’re calling us into it. That, God, we have no idea where the journey may lead, but that we can trust the God who’s calling us into the journey. So, God, I pray that, man, just as You met Hagar in the middle of running away and going, “I can’t do this anymore,” God, that You showed up for her in a way that says You see her. And, God, the same way You saw her, You see us exactly where we are. And You aren’t asking us to step into anything that would cause us harm, but that it would grow us and develop us into becoming the person that You created us to be. So, God, above anything, I ask that You’d give us the courage to trust You. That we would trust You beyond the unknowns, that we would trust You beyond the fear of our past. God, that we would be able to trust You to be the God that You’ve always been. God, I’m so grateful that Your faithfulness is not contingent upon our faith. You just are. You just are who You say you are. You just do what it is that You said you would do. You’re trustworthy, and you can be depended on. And so, God, with all of those things that are true about You, God, I pray that it empowers my sisters to take the step. Not the next five, not the step 22, but just the first step or the next step. God, I pray that wherever we are on our journey, that we would feel a holy burden to say yes to You, God. Not just for ourselves, but all of the lives that are attached to that step. God, all of the lives that are attached to the thing that You’re calling us into is. I pray that there would be an urgency for people to meet You and encounter you through our lives and our steps. Thank You for entrusting us with the assignment to say yes. And we choose to trust You beyond all the other things because You are trustworthy. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen. 

[Theme music] 

Eryn: Well, friends, be sure to check out our website to subscribe to our email list, read the newest blog article, or check out the God Hears Her books and devotionals. Find that and more at GodHearsHer.org. That’s GodHearsHer-dot-o.r.g. 

Vivian: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget: God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His. 

[Music] 

Eryn: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark. 

Jade: We also want to thank Patty and Alyssa for all their help and support. Thanks everyone. 

Vivian: Our Daily Bread Ministries is a donor supported, nonprofit ministry dedicated to making the life-changing wisdom and stories of the Bible come alive for all people around the world. 

[ODB theme] 

Vivian: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.