Faithfully Overcoming Anxious Moments

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 234 – Faithfully Overcoming Anxious Moments

Elisa Morgan and Eryn Adkins

[Music]

Elisa: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through Scripture, story, and conversation at godhearsher.org. God hears her. Seek and she will find.

Jade Gustman: Hey friends, unfortunately, the God Hears Her podcast has a sad update. Season eighteen will be the final season of our show. Thank you so much for being a part of the God Hears Her community for all of these years and listening to all of these conversations. As a thank you, we have a special surprise with our big grand finale coming out this fall. Stay tuned for that, and now let’s get into the conversation

Eryn: So today we’re going to talk about something that we experience on a minute-by-minute daily encounter…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … with ourselves.

Elisa: Yep.

Eryn: Okay. That is worry and anxiety. And ironically, preparing this I had anxiety.

Elisa: What? What?

Eryn: And…

Elisa: … Now you’re making me anxious. Okay. All right.

Eryn: But you know that’s something that I’ve always kind of struggled with is worry and anxiety since I was a little girl. I remember when I noticed I had anxiety when I would look at my fingers and I had tremors when I was nineteen.

Elisa: Baby.

Eryn: Where your fingers kind of shake a little bit… when you get a little worry. And I remember not realizing that I was worrying about anything, and I think that that’s… it can be a little silent, like, thief of joy…

Elisa: Yeah, no kidding …

Eryn: … worry and anxiety can.

Elisa: Yeah, steal it right out from underneath your heart. Yeah.

Eryn: Yep. And I… in talking about this, there’s many different things that bring it out. So, there’s big circumstances, there’s little circumstances, but the one thing that I want to be very intentional about saying here today is what we discuss in Scripture, I don’t want anybody to feel like we are trying to just Band-Aid it and void the pains and experiences that we have in life that cause worry and anxiety. But with that, as we kind of dig into this topic… Elisa, I’m going to ask, we’re just going to, like…

Elisa: [exploding sound]

Eryn: … dive in. Do you have your swimsuit on?

Elisa: Yep, I’m ready.

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: Okay. High dive. [Choo sound]

Eryn: High dive. I want to know, has… is there a time in your life where you have felt really overwhelmed and anxious, where you had maybe a physical experience, whether it was a panic attack or tremors like I said, or racing thoughts, or… did you ever… experience anything like that?

Elisa: Oh, there are a couple of them. Okay, I’m going to one where I was in Washington, D.C. for a conference, and I got a phone call five minutes before I boarded the plane to come back to Denver. And it was my daughter saying her water had broken, but she was only five months pregnant.

Eryn: Oh, wow.

Elisa: And I was like… Now, historically, this was not the first time this had happened.

Eryn: Oh, okay.

Elisa: But I had begged God for a baby for her, and I was freaking because I couldn’t be there, and I had to get on this four-hour flight. And I remember, this is a good example, cause I remember sitting and… was just imagining it, this steel tube, trapped in a steel tube, and… I couldn’t pray, I couldn’t think, I couldn’t… I couldn’t do anything, but I sat there for four hours and somehow God hovered around me. But I was a wreck, and when I got there I was a wreck, and I drove nine-million… you know, miles an hour, et cetera. But that is so vividly…

Eryn: Yeah

Elisa: … stamped in my brain.

Eryn: What… when you say a wreck, what does that look like for you?

Elisa: You can’t see it on the outside.

Eryn: Really? So, you… you on the outside look a certain way, but on the inside…

Elisa: I always look like this.

Eryn: Really?

Elisa: Like, hey.

Eryn: But internally?

Elisa: Inside, [screaming] Oh my gosh!! Yeah, yeah. Inside, no, I just… you know, I’m an adult child of an alcoholic. I learned how to compartmentalize. I’m a professional. I’ve had to speak on platforms in front of tons of people…

Eryn: Yeah …

Elisa: … when our entire family’s falling apart…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … But God has allowed me to be in places where I had to hold it together. So, you can’t really tell it on the outside for me.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: But on the inside, I was shaking, I was little… I was scared, I was overwhelmed. Oh, the other thing that happens to me is I get big…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and I’m going to fix it…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … So, I was fix-it mom, too…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … I was going to tell that doctor…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … that kind of thing.

Eryn: So, that’s kind of how it was developed in you. When I… when that day that I started learning, like, my fingers would shake a little bit, I was like, I need to talk to somebody about this. And I… I went to a therapist, and we were talking about it, and a lot of my anxiety would come out in, like, fear of some… like, I was fearful of, like, maybe there’s a circumstance happening in my life that’s out of control… but my energy would be expensed over here towards traffic, or towards my calendar, or towards a friendship. So, but, really all my expelling out over here was because something was going on here.

Elisa: Is that called displacement or something like that…

Eryn: I don’t know. Is that what it’s called?

Elisa: …Transference…

Eryn: Maybe.

Elisa: …you know, that we take the core issue…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and we distract ourselves by dealing with it in some other area.

Eryn: Yeah…

Elisa: I think.

Eryn: I think so.

Elisa: Okay.

Eryn: Well, I’m… I… I didn’t know that term, but I’d noticed that I do that. And so, the more I started working through my thought patterns… and my anxiety and my worry, can you think of anything… any Scriptures that come to mind when you think of everyday worry?

Elisa: I think about Matthew 5…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … where Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount says, “Don’t worry about tomorrow.” You know, He talks about…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … the flowers being dressed like Solomon in all his glory. He talks about the birds of the air being… being given food to eat…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And He says, “If your heavenly Father cares for them… how much more is He going to care for you?” And I love that passage, to think He’s that involved…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … in my cares.

Eryn: That’s good. How have your friends played a part in your anxieties? Like, when you got that call about your daughter, and what did your community look like?

Elisa: That was a odd moment because I had very little time to communicate. It was back in the days when you…

Eryn: Oh.

Elisa: … couldn’t talk on the planes and, you know, stuff like that…

Eryn: Oh, right.

Elisa: … So, I was with a… a group of women…

Eryn: Now that adds another level of anxiety.

Elisa: … Yup. And I was with a group of women, so I blurted out to one of them, and then I quickly did get my husband. I knew they were praying, but that’s all I could do. And, you know, there were people sitting around me. It was a perfect example of being in a bubble. You know, there were people right here and here, and I’m sure if I’d gone, hey…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I’m going through this horrible moment…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I’m sure they would care.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: But I couldn’t even open my mouth. So that was isolating. Then I… when I landed…

Eryn: Yeah …

Elisa: … and I’m on the phone the whole way to the hospital with whoever would talk to me, and that was interesting, too. My friends really wanted to help once I landed, and I didn’t know what to do, but they said, we’re just coming. And you know what happened was so cool…

Eryn: They said they were… We’re just going to show up.

Elisa: … We’re just showing up. And so, they came and knocked on the door, and Eva was already in the throes of labor…

Eryn: Oh, wow.

Elisa: … and I just said, I’m going to give you a job. Would you pray for this baby’s movement from womb to tomb? Would you carry him so I can carry Eva?

Eryn: Oh, that’s beautiful.

Elisa: And that was beautiful. They did. They did.

Eryn: That’s beautiful.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: I mean, that is having friends step in…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … to carry your burdens.

Elisa: It’s … I don’t like doing life all alone. You know? Do you?

Eryn: No. I… I recall a time where we were going through a really, really heavy time. I… it… it was really hard for me to control my thought life… to, like, almost ruminate on a circumstance, you know? It… it’s the unknown…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … Like, we were talking about, the deeper anxiety, it’s the unknown of something really big happening, and we were in that holding… space for probably two years. And I just remember forming… I did a group text with some girlfriends. And I just text them and I said, hey, I just need y’all to be on call with me. Like, when I… when I’m, like, spiraling, if I’m not able to control my thought life, if I’m wondering where God is, I… I need friends to point me back to Him. I need friends to remind me that He… He’s holding this. I don’t have to. Because it can feel so overwhelming with our circumstances that we sometimes become self-sufficient, would you say?

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: What you said, you get big and in charge. I… I remember that season of just texting my girlfriends and being like, hey, I need… I need y’all, and I did. And I text them anytime, and they would immediately send a prayer, immediately send Scripture. And… and yeah, I… I… I don’t think we’re supposed to hold our deep anxieties and our everyday worries alone.

Elisa: It… it’s tempting, cause we want to look like we’re doing it right on the outside. I mean, isn’t that what a strong Christian woman does, is hold it all?

Eryn: Yeah. It’s seen as kind of holy if you do that…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … in some ways. Why is that? I mean, you’ve… you’ve seen a lot of women in your life…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn:  … that… that do that. Why do we do that?

Elisa: We think that looks like Jesus. You know, I think…

Eryn: Yeah …

Elisa: … we think that’s what He wants from us.

Eryn: That’s what He wants from us.

Elisa: It’s the opposite.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: He wants us to fall apart into His arms…

Eryn: That’s a good word.

Elisa: … You know, “Come to me all you who are weary and heavy-laden, I’ll give you… rest….”

Eryn: Matthew 11:28.

Elisa: … You know? It’s… it’s one of your very favorite verses.  And…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and I love that. You know, He wants the messy, He wants us, He wants us afraid, He wants us scared. And… and my tendency is to stuff down that part of me. And I’ve learned that, and you’ve… referenced this, because of survival. You know, I’m a child of divorce. I grew up needing to be the parent when I was five, so… I know how to do this. Stuff down…

Eryn: Yep.

Elisa: … the needs. Lead with the provisions, you know? Everybody looks to me when there’s a problem. Okay, I got it.

Eryn: Yep.

Elisa: So, when I’m in a pickle of worry, that’s my first response.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: But it’s not always the right response.

Eryn: What do you think the right response is?

Elisa: Well, “Do not worry about anything, but in everything,” you know, “let your requests be known to God…”

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … “and the peace of God that passes understanding…”

Eryn: Understanding, yeah. That’s right.

Elisa: … you know, it’s really a… a relinquishment, I think is the right response.

Eryn: Release of control.

Elisa: But doggone it, you know, Eryn, you’re… you’re talking about the big, big things. You know, when your kid’s in a wreck, or somebody has an accident… I mean, in terms of, like, they need to go to the ER or…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … your husband’s diagnosed. You don’t have the luxury to go, I’m really messed up right now. I can’t cope.

Eryn: Yeah. Right.

Elisa: You have to show up. But you show up scared…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And you show up messed up, and you show up…

Eryn: And you show up anyways.

Elisa: … needy.

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Elisa: Okay? I think that’s the trick, is the…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … balance of I… don’t have this all together, I’m terrified… but here’s His insurance card.

Eryn: Yeah. Right, and but here’s the practical… that’s the practical. What you said that I’ve watched you, and I’ve… and we’ve talked about, like, stuffing. What would you say of how I handle anxiety and worry, being on the other side of me?

Elisa: That’s so cute. You call me at all hours… and you’re straight up, this is what’s happening. You called me two weeks ago, it wasn’t huge anxiety, but it was a little bit of a bump going, hey…

Eryn: Yeah. Everyday worry…

Elisa: … yeah, one of my daughters has questions about the role of women in Scripture. Could you just talk about that for a minute?

Eryn: Yeah. Yep.

Elisa: … You know, you act…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and I think you do so really appropriately. So, you… you handle what you can, okay? And then when you can’t handle it, which have been some crises in your life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … would you please pray?

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Here’s what’s happening.

Eryn: Yeah. Do you think you can overcome anxiety and worry?

Elisa: I think you can yield it.

Eryn: Yield it. I agree. I don’t think you can overcome it.

Elisa: Tell me about that.

Eryn: I…

Elisa: And why?

Eryn: … I think it’s just being on this other side of heaven. I think it’s the depravity of this world that we live in, and I think the pressure that we can put on ourselves that we have to overcome this, we have to pray more, we have to perform more in order to experience peace is… I don’t think that’s true.

Elisa: This is that whole victory in Jesus stuff. You know, “Victory in Jesus.” You know, it’s like, I’m going to do it right…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … and God’s going to bless me…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … You know, and He will always bless us, but His blessings may not look like what we expect…

Eryn: But I…

Elisa: … but they’re always for our good.

Eryn: … I like what you said about yielding, cause I think over time, when I started learning that, oh, I think I struggle with having anxiety. Like, and it’s coming out in a physical form, and it’s coming out in me putting my attention here and here. I started learning how to have conversations about it with community, how to bring it and be honest to God about it…

Elisa: And journal it.

Eryn: … and journal it. I…

Elisa: You’re a big journaler.

Eryn: I am a huge journaler…

Elisa: It helps you so much.

Eryn: … I actually think it does something chemically, they say, to… to the brain when you’re able to physically put in form, not type, but write what you’re experiencing, and feeling, and struggling with. And… and I… I think that our God is so confident that He can handle any of our anxieties that we don’t have to perform for it. And I think that we witness that in Scriptures time and time again. That’s why I love… the Bible is not shy of anxiety and worry, and Paul specifically, and how Paul has faced so… so many opportunities to have panic attacks, and anxiety, and pain. And he… he teaches us how to walk through that and… and how to be honest with it. And so, I’d love for us to spend some time in Philippians. And we were talking about this last night over dinner. I said, you know, I’m studying Paul, I’m studying in Acts, I’m asking you questions about, okay, Acts… go ahead and share with me… what, and I love this about… the story of Acts and how it relates to…

Elisa: Yeah

Eryn: … Philippians.

Elisa: So, Acts is the story of the early church. The first section is really about Peter, and the second section’s really about Paul’s journey, and halfway through Paul, Saul of Tarsus becomes Paul…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … as he has this dramatic encounter with Jesus…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And then Acts takes us through his missionary journeys…

Eryn: Yes.

Elisa: … which I always see in a map form, cause that’s how I first saw them. So, some people have a Bible, and you open up at the back, there’s a map, but it’ll have different colors for his different journeys: red, blue, green. And he had three different missionary journeys that went across from Israel over to…

Eryn: Yeah, you did this for me

Elisa: … Rome and stuff. Yeah, it was like this…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … Anyway, and he evangelized for the gospel…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And he would go to different cities. One of them was the area called Galatia. One of was the area called Philippi. And… and so… and then… Colossae. And so, then you see after Acts, further down the road, you’ll see his letters… to the Romans, letters to the Corinthians, letters to Galatians, et cetera…

Eryn: Yep.

Elisa: … And Philippians is one of those letters that was written to the church he established there…

Eryn: Right,

Elisa: … and the story of him establishing the church is in Acts 16…

Eryn: 16.

Elisa: … and 17.

Eryn: And he was in prison, right? In Rome?

Elisa: He was in prison in Rome when he wrote the letter to the Philippians…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … But in Acts it tells how the church was established. It, I mean, just kind of interesting, I’ll pull out a couple of things…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … A lady named Lydia was in Philippi. And they would meet down by the river in a little area, and Paul would preach to them. Okay, so that… you’re going to hear about that in Acts 15. And then Paul and Silas get put in prison later on in Acts 16. So that’s…

Eryn: It…

Elisa: … kind of the background.

Eryn: So, in… when they are in prison, I read that they pray, they praise, they sing hymns, and there is a guard there that is terrified, which is interesting. My husband pointed out something the other day. He said, the guard is free and yet in fear. But Paul and Silas are in prison, and they … and fearful of their life, and you know, all, like, what’s going to happen, and they are praising. And I thought that was really interesting.

Elisa: Should we read that little section?

Eryn: We probably should…

Elisa: I think that’s great.

Eryn:  … cause I wasn’t planning to dig into that… but I… I did… yeah, let’s do it.

Elisa: So, I think in verse, okay, chapter 16 of Acts, in verse 16…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … starts telling the story. It’s so dramatic…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … You know, I think you’re right, because it really gives you the background for Philippians…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and why he writes what he writes, if I think I know where you’re going. I’m not sure.

Eryn: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No, it’s 16:22, right?

Elisa: Okay, you’re right…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … Let… let’s go to 22.

Eryn: Okay. “The crowd joined in the attack against them, and the chief mag… magistrates…”

Elisa: … Magis- magistrates. Yeah.

Eryn: … “magistrates…” Who are they?

Elisa: You might hear about them in, like, English whodunits.

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: They’re like judges and officials.

Eryn: ”…stripped off their clothes and ordered them to be beaten with rods…”

Elisa: Fun.

Eryn: “… After they had severely flogged them, they threw them in jail, ordering the jailer to guard them carefully. Receiving such an order,” I’m going to 24. “Receiving such an order, he put them into the inner prison and secured their feet in the stocks.”

Elisa: Okay, so you can… kind of picture a dungeon…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … You know, and their feet are in the… the stocks. It’s pretty sad. Should I keep reading?

Eryn: Yeah, yeah. You read 25.

Elisa: Okay. “So about midnight, Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God,” this is what you were saying… about praising God, “and the other prisoners were listening to them. And suddenly there was such a violent earthquake that the foundations of the prison were shaken. At once, all the prison doors flew open, and everyone’s chains came loose.” And here’s what you were referring to…

Eryn: Yep.

Elisa: … Verse 27, “The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself…”

Eryn: He was that terrified.

Elisa: … because why? “Because he thought the prisoners had escaped,” because what would’ve happened to him if they escaped?

Eryn: He would’ve had to die. He would’ve been killed.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: So, he thought he would do it himself.

Elisa: Freaking out.

Eryn: Yep.

Elisa: And Paul goes in verse 28 then…

Eryn: “But Paul called out in a loud voice, ‘Don’t harm yourself! Because we’re all here.’” And I just love that… that Paul had such a peace and a thought to go, oh, I need to let him know he’s okay.

Elisa: So good. So good.

Eryn: He had such a control over his mind in that moment of…

Elisa: Instead of running… racing out the door…

Eryn: … right, to go, it’s okay, we’re all here…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … We’re… you’re good…

Elisa: You’re good.

Eryn: … we’ve been singing. We knew this would … God’s coming! I just love that. So… so, then Paul writes the letters… so, he writes one, and Philip… he writes Philippians. Right? Okay. So, let’s… let’s do this. Yeah, I want to read…

Elisa: But you asked a question that I think…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I love that you asked it, and I want to hear what you think.

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: You said, “Why was the jailer afraid…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and why were Paul and Silas praising and singing?”

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: What do you think?

Eryn: Well, I mean, the obvious is that Paul and Silas had their faith in Jesus, so they… they had a source to seem to… to calm them, give them peace. They knew of His faithfulness, and I don’t know if the jailer did.

Elisa: Yeah… he was pretty terrified. I mean, he goes on in the next verses, he calls for the lights, he rushed in and he fell trembling before Paul and Silas, and then he brought out… brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” So, I think that… I think you’re onto something. You know, you’re onto something. He was terrified, they were not…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … because they had a source, and he didn’t know God.

Eryn: He didn’t know God.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: And he didn’t know how powerful…

Elisa: Yeah …

Eryn: … he had just heard, probably, and probably mocked them. I… can’t imagine when they’re… when he’s putting them in prison…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … the abuse and the… the words, the verbal abuse that they probably…

Elisa: Right, and they’re flogging them, and beating them, and stripping them, and…

Eryn: But what humility for that jailer to come to… to go, “How can I be saved?” He experienced something with Paul even saying, “Don’t hurt yourself. We’re all here.”

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: That probably in itself changed and shifted some things in that jailer.

Elisa: I love that. Love that.

Eryn: You know? I really love that.

[Music]

Jade Gustman: Hey friends, are you looking for a new Bible study that encourages you to slowly work your way through Scripture? Check out the TEND Your Soul Bible Studies by Mariel Davenport from God Hears Her. With these studies, you can deep dive into books of Scripture, like Ruth, James, and 1 Peter through the TEND method. To learn more, you can find the link for those in our show notes. Now, back to the show.

Eryn: So, a few things though that I… I love that Paul writes about when writing in… when he is in prison. He talks about gratitude. He talks about encouragement, rejoicing in Christ, but he emphasizes on joy, contentment, and peace even in suffering. And I see Paul, I just imagine him battling, like, his flesh and then the knowing of God, of who God is in his life, and we do that often.

Elisa: Absolutely.

Eryn: We battle with our flesh and who God is. So, let’s… I want you to read Philippians 1:12-14.

Elisa: Okay. Okay. “Now I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that what has happened to me has actually served to advance the gospel. As a result, it’s become clear throughout the whole palace guard and to everyone else that I am in chains for Christ. And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident in the Lord and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.” You want me to keep going?

Eryn: … no. My… I have a… a Christian Standard Version…

Elisa: Okay, sure.

Eryn: … so, mine’s a little different, but what I love that it says, it says… “Served to advance the gospel…”

Elisa: Right.

Eryn: … So, when I read that, like, it practically, I think about hardship, and I think about how can hardship, how can we see that there’s something past? There’s a future to our pain. Like, our pain isn’t immediate, and I feel like that’s what it’s saying…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … Have you ever, I mean, been in a situation where things look bad, but later you realize that God had a plan or He worked it out on the other side…

Elisa: Yeah …

Eryn: … in future?

Elisa: And you know, Paul’s writing, he was in jail many times, you know? And… and most of these, these are called the prison letters, the ones we’re reading from. So, that was one time, but he was in jail many times. And I think it’s in Acts 11 that he talks about all the stuff, in Acts 28, all the stuff he’s been through…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … just all kinds of things. So…

Eryn: This kind of prepares that, I guess…

Elisa: That’s it, that’s it.

Eryn: … this sets the stage for.

Elisa: He’s been through all this stuff, so when he’s writing to those in Philippi, he’s writing from a context of having been refined by difficult times. Philippians is a… a thank you note that Paul wrote to a group of people who’ve been…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … supporting him financially. So, they’re … And they need encouragement.

Eryn: And they were… more of a successful class?

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Yeah. And they need encouragement, and so, they’re worried about him….

Eryn: Do you think there was a strategy to him to encourage and influence them because of their class?

Elisa: Good question. Possibly.

Eryn: Like, if he could get them on…

Elisa: Yup, they were leaders in a way…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … Like, if… if he’s going to write to the Corinthians, they had a whole mess of problems, you know…?

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And different groups, the Galatians were really struggling with legalism, et cetera. The Philippians were more successful. They were happy people, except when you get to… I think it’s chapter… Where is it? 3… 2 and 3. There’s a problem between two women in Philippi… that aren’t getting along, and he calls them out and tells them to work out their stuff together. So, I mean, it… his letters…

Eryn: That’s okay.

Elisa: … are really for shaping the church…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And I… I think what you’re pointing out in verses 12 down to 14 is so beautiful, because he’s definitely had moments of anxiety…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … but because of his faith…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … he’s able to survive them, and he’s referring to them…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: “… I want you to know what happened to me has served to advance the gospel…”

Eryn: Yeah…

Elisa: … And he has this yielded thing…

Eryn: … And that his suffering could be turned good. Yeah.

Elisa: … You used that word. He’s an example of yielding in those moments…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … yielding in the earthquake when the chains fall off in prison.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: Having the foresight to say, “We’re all here. It’s okay.”

Elisa: Yeah. Yeah.

Eryn: So… so, have you ever had a situation that looked bad? Let’s go to that question.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: And you were like… you thought for sure. And then He showed up differently.

Elisa: A million.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: A million. If I go back to the one on the plane, that was horrible. And I did get to the hospital, and I sat there… with the doctor explaining why she couldn’t save this baby who was twenty-two weeks only in utero. And oh, I just… I couldn’t understand. I couldn’t understand why she couldn’t fix it. But as I had to yield it, and yield what my daughter was doing… This is a… this is a little deep, but… Malachi came forth, that’s his name, and my daughter asked me to take him with the doctor… because she still had to finish the process…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And so, I was honored to steward his little being, even though he was already moving to heaven. And it was such a sacred moment. And I was able to do that and hold his presence for myself and for her, and report it to her later. God worked some amazing miracles that night…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … in how she named him, in who her doctor was…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … Turns out the doctor was best friends with one of my best friends, and I had called her earlier in the evening, and she’d been praying and texting me, and we only discovered the next day…

Eryn: Oh, wow …

Elisa: … that my dear friend was also the doctor’s dear friend, and she had been praying for the doctor…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … delivering and for Eva… not knowing they were the same…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … room. [gasps]

Eryn: And that’s where you see God in those moments. But in… well…

Elisa: Stunning.

Eryn: … after the moment.

Elisa: After the moment.

Eryn: But not in the moment.

Elisa: “I want you to know that what has happened to me has actually served to advance the gospel…”

Eryn: Exactly.

Elisa: … And that doctor was like, I mean…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … her mouth was on the ground…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … when she put all the pieces together. She ran into my friend at a Bible study and they realized the hookup, and my friend calls me, and the doctor races back to the hospital and prays with Eva.

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: And I’m just like, wow, who knew?

Eryn: That’s amazing. Only God did.

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: He just knows what He’s doing all the time.

Elisa: And I actually wasn’t planning to share any of that…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … I haven’t even thought of that whole story…

Eryn: Until now?

Elisa: …in years.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I mean, Malachi would be seventeen years old…

Eryn: Wow.

Elisa: … I haven’t thought about it in so long, but you asked, and so He just put that in our conversation…

Eryn: I love it.

Elisa: … right here. I had no intention of even thinking about that.

Eryn: That’s amazing.

Elisa: Wow, wow.

Eryn: Wow. Okay, so let’s… let’s… So, for this… I… just one thing, Seeing a bigger purpose in hardship. Seeing a bigger purpose outside of our deep anxieties I think can help us shift our mindset to work through them. I don’t think we’ll ever overcome them, but I think that we can see that there’s a bigger purpose…

Elisa: That there’s something more happening here?

Eryn: Yeah, there’s a hope there.

Elisa: That’s good.

Eryn: But so… I want to go to Philippians 4…

Elisa: Okay.

Eryn: … 6 through 7… We had mentioned this, I think, earlier…

Elisa: Oh, I started to…

Eryn: You didn’t even know we were going to do it.

Elisa: … spout this one out. I learned this back in high school, yeah. Okay.

Eryn: All right. Will you read 6 through 7?

Elisa: “Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your mind in Christ Jesus.”

Eryn: Okay, so, one thing that stuck out to me in this was, “Present your requests to God,” and it goes back to kind of what we were saying in the beginning, just being honest with what we’re wrestling with. The everyday worries, the big, deep anxiety worries. He’s so confident. He wants to carry them. But I think so often we… What did we say earlier? We feel like we have to…

Elisa: Stuff it, yeah.

Eryn: … stuff it or… muster our way through, or perform, and this is, what I love is it’s saying, “Present your requests.” Give them to Him, but then he says, like, “With thanksgiving.” Why do you think Paul ties thanksgiving to overcoming anxiety? Because, I mean, I will be honest, anytime someone has said… And I’m anxious, and they tell me that I need to be grateful… makes me more mad. Like, it actually heightens my anxiety. But, like, there is something to learn here, so I’ll put aside my frustration when…

Elisa: Love it.

Eryn: … people say that to me. And I’d love… I’d love to know your perspective. Why do you think that Paul ties thanksgiving to anxiety?

Elisa: First, that’s straight-up honest, Eryn, and I love that. I mean, it’s, like, so counterintuitive. The last thing I want to do is go…

Eryn: Right, yeah.

Elisa: … Thank you! Yeah. One of my bosses a while… many years ago, when I was going through one of these crazy situations that I’m describing, said, have you thanked God yet? And I was like, are you nuts…?

Eryn: Oh, yeah.

Elisa: … Are you absolutely crazy? And he directed me to, I think, it’s 1 Thessalonians 5:18, that, “Give thanks to God in everything,” not for…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … everything, but in everything…

Eryn: In everything.

Elisa: “… For this is the will of God in Christ Jesus.” And I think that’s the hint here, is that “present your request with thanksgiving” because… you’re… you’re thanking Him that He’s already moving on your behalf for good.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: He’s already on your side.

Eryn: Do you think that we struggle with doing that, though, because we’re scared He won’t be on the other side?

Elisa: Don’t you? I mean, I do.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: I’m like, you know that Romans 8 thing about “God works all… everything for good for those who love Him are called according to His purposes,” well, must not be me…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … you know, because this isn’t working out the way I wanted…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … But, again, it goes back to, what do we believe about the character of God…?

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … What do we believe about who He is…?

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … And when we hit these really gnarly spots in life that’s when it shows us, isn’t it?

Eryn: Yeah. I think we have to come to a place of desperation to… to be willing to … I mean, there’s been some times where I’ve just been like, I literally don’t know what you’re going to do, and so I’m desperately going to be grateful.

Elisa: That’s so good.

Eryn: You know? It’s like I’m…

Elisa: What does that look like? How do you pray that?

Eryn: … it looks like me saying exactly that, and maybe…

Elisa: Maybe with some tears.

Eryn: … not even believing it…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … you know? But just, like, cause sometimes I don’t believe it, and it’s… and that’s my… that’s my flesh with the spirit of, you know, like, I’m… I’m scared to admit it because the heartbreak of You not showing up…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … is… I don’t know if I could handle that.

Elisa: You know, I… we’ve been let down. And things have actually, we… I mean, I have yielded and seen worse things happen.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: I have.

Eryn: Yeah, right.

Elisa: But even further down the road, I can see some turns and some ebbs, and I can see the layers that God has built. But I think you’re hitting it, that the pain of disappointment, and rejection, and the broken dreams…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … what we really wanted, what we really wanted for our kids, what we really wanted for ourselves, and now we get this…

Eryn: For health, or for future, or…

Elisa: … and now we get that. It’s really disappointing. But the only way out of it I know is to stay in it…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … because I do see how He’s worked…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … in it, that, like Paul writes…

Eryn: Yeah

Elisa: God did bring it out. It happened for a purpose…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … It happened to advance…

Eryn: That’s why I’m so inspired by Paul’s faith and how… And I didn’t know this, side note, that Philippians is known as the letters of joy…

Elisa: Yeah, letter of joy. Yeah.

Eryn: The letter of joy…

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: … and yet he has endured a lot…

Elisa: So much.

Eryn: … in his circumstances. You said…

Elisa: I think it’s because it starts out with it.

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: Verse 3, “I thank my God every time I remember you. In all my prayers, I always pray with joy because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, being confident of this…”

Eryn: Yeah …

Elisa: “… that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.”

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: And, you know, you started out asking me, you know, “How do you do this alone?” And Paul knew he wasn’t doing it alone…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … He knew these guys were praying for him…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … and he knew God was working in them, and he knew that what God was allowing to happen in him was for their good.

Eryn: Oh, so good.

Elisa: Yeah, yeah.

Eryn: So, the last one I want to look at is Philippians 4:11–13. You want to read that?

Elisa: Yeah, “I am not saying this because I’m in need, for I’ve learned to be content whatever the circumstance. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all things through him who gives me strength.”

Eryn: I love that. Okay, I’m going to read my version.

Elisa: Yes.

Eryn: “I don’t say this out of need, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstance I find myself. I know both how to make do with little, and I know how to make do with a lot. In any and all circumstances I have learned the secret of being content–whether well fed or hungry, whether in abundance or in need, I am able to do all things through him who strengthens me. Still, you did well by partnering with me in my hardship.” “By partnering with me in my hardship.”

Elisa: That’s beautiful.

Eryn: And I love this… I love this verse because it talks about, well, it talks about the appreciation of support, talks about contentment, talks about partnership and hardship. And I guess… I guess I want to talk about contentment. How can you find contentment when you are anxious and you’re worrying? What does that practically look like?

Elisa: Yeah.

Eryn: How do you find contentment?

Elisa: Well, what does he say?

Eryn: So, he says… he “learned the secret of being content, whether well-fed or hungry, whether in abundance or in need, I am able to do all things through God.” So, his contentment is purely through no matter what is going on.

Elisa: He’s seen God provide. You know, I mean, he’s been shipwrecked, he’s been beaten…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … he’s been left for dead. He’s, you know, on and on…

Eryn: He’s been rescued, he’s been captured, he’s been, yes.

Elisa: And he’s still around, he had a thorn in the flesh, whatever that was, and God carries him through that. He has all these things he’s survived, so he’s known that God is his source. When he’s anxious or whatever his circumstance is, it’s his relationship with God that holds him secure.

Eryn: Yeah, that’s good. That holds him secure…

Elisa: And I guess that’s enough for him…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I mean, I look at some of these things, and I look at our brothers and sisters around the planet serving in places of great need, and I think, I don’t think I could do that. And in some ways, you know, whether it’s the persecuted church, or it’s people working with HIV-positive orphans, or whatever…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … I look at them and I think God is demonstrating His enoughness in their lives in a way I haven’t experienced yet.

Eryn: His enoughness.

Elisa: But I’ve seen His enoughness in my life.

Eryn: Right, and it looks different than…

Elisa: Yes, it does. And you’ve seen…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … His enoughness in your life.

Eryn: Well, and that, we didn’t think to talk about that, but that pings on also looking around side to side instead of looking forward to seeing what God is doing.

Elisa: That’s good…

Eryn: Cause we…

Elisa: Tell me more about that

Eryn: … well, I think that we can often look around and see, well, God’s doing that for them, and He’s doing it for them…

Elisa: Okay.

Eryn: … He’s doing it for them. He’s not doing it for me. And so, we… we do become discontent, maybe, in our pain and in our circumstances not trusting in the future of what He has or what He’s going to do with our circumstance.

Elisa: And… and comparing was a big deal. You just said that…

Eryn: Comparing…

Elisa: … we look at them…

Eryn: … looking side to side…

Elisa: … we look at that, and so God loves her more than me…

Eryn: Right.

Elisa: … You know, God doesn’t love me, he just loves her…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … because she has this, and you know, that’s really dangerous…

Eryn: Yeah.

Elisa: … because it’s just not true.

Eryn: Yeah. What would be something that you would encourage someone in that’s wrestling with deep anxiety? Or everyday worry?

Elisa: Yeah. We’re going to… I’m going to say journaling, like you did. Look back at what God has already done for you, and believe that He can do it again.

Eryn: Believe He can do it again.

Elisa: Believe He can do it again. I think just some really physical moments of sitting in a chair, closing your eyes, putting your feet flat on the ground, you know, putting your hands flat on your knees…

Eryn: Let’s do it.

Elisa: … Okay. Okay, let’s… let’s do it. [rustling] Okay…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … feet flat on the ground, hands flat on your knees, back straight…

Eryn: Okay.

Elisa: … eyes closed., roll your shoulders back, feel the ground beneath your feet. Breathe in and out. Feel your bottom against the cushion. Feel your backbone holding your head. In and out. Feel your knees beneath your hands. Be aware that each surface of your body is touching something solid. And that something solid is holding you. And for just a few minutes, imagine the truth that that is God’s presence on this planet holding you to it. You are not alone. And when you function from that solid place, breathing in and out, anxiety gets rooted, and He will complete the good work that He’s begun.

Eryn: That’s a good word.

Elisa: Does that help?

Eryn: I like that. Can I pray for us? Okay, let’s pray. Here, I’ll hold your hand.

Elisa: Okay, baby.

Eryn: Oh, come cuddle. Oh, Lord, I just thank You so much that we can just learn more of who You are, the character of who You are through just… just the people around us, our friends around us, the people that support us when we feel weary, when we feel anxious… and I just thank You for … I thank You for giving us Philippians and it teaching us ways in which we can encounter… when we encounter anxiety and worry, how we can face it with… gratitude and… and finding ways to be grateful, fighting our way into being honest with people around us… I pray for the woman right now that’s listening that is just really struggling… with maybe her thought life, with rapid thoughts, with… whether it’s the fear of, you know, being good enough… as a mom, as a wife, as a daughter… as a granddaughter, Lord, I just pray that You give her a sense of peace that she can’t explain. She knows it’s not out of her performance, but it’s out of your presence. And we just love You that… we just love You and we thank You that You’re so, so present, and that You do hear us, and that You do see us, and that You do deeply love us to bring all of our honest anxieties to You. And it’s in Your name we pray, amen.

Elisa: Amen. Thank you.

[Music]

Eryn: Well, friends, be sure to check out our website to subscribe to our email list or check out the God Hears Her books and devotionals. Find that and more at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.

Vivian Mabuni: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget, God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[Music]

Elisa: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark.

Jade Gustman: We also want to thank Dave and Kim for all of their help and support. Thanks everyone. And be sure to keep an eye out for the big God Hears Her finale coming this fall. Follow our socials or subscribe to our YouTube channel to make sure you don’t miss it. You can find all those links on our website or in our show notes.

Eryn: Our Daily Bread Ministries is a donor-supported, non-profit ministry dedicated to making the life-changing wisdom and stories of the Bible come alive for all people around the world.

[Music]

Eryn: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.