The Praying Mom

God Hears Her Podcast

Episode 236 – The Praying Mom with Lee Nienhuis

Eryn Adkins & Vivian Mabuni with Lee Nienhuis

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Elisa Morgan: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you. Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through Scripture, story, and conversation at godhearsher.org. God hears her. Seek and she will find.

Jade: Hey friends, as you may know, this is the last episode of the God Hears Her podcast until our big finale episode. Thank you so much for being a part of the God Hears Her community for all of these years and listening to all of these conversations. It truly means a lot. And because of your love and dedication for the show, we have a special surprise for you with a big grand finale coming out this fall. For the finale, you’ll get to follow the God Hears Her producers and hosts to experience a behind-the-scenes day of recording a podcast and the final sit-down conversation. Stay tuned for the release date. Now, let’s get into this conversation

Vivian: All right, Eryn, we have a treat today. Here in our amazing studio we have Lee, and she is a friend of mine. So, anytime we have conversations with friends…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … it just feels like a reunion of… in many ways. But a little bit about Lee, she…

Eryn: Yeah, tell me… tell me about Lee.

Vivian: … Yes, happy to. Lee lives in West Michigan. She’s the mom of four, wife to Mike. She’s an extraordinary leader, and she has such a deep love for God’s Word… for prayer. You live what you teach. And she’s a incredible Bible teacher. She’s an author. She’s done podcasting. She is a consultant and a coach. She goes around the world spreading God’s love. I mean, she is really amazing, and we are so honored to have you, Lee, on God Hears Her. Welcome.

Eryn: Yes, welcome.

Lee: Well, it’s so fun to get to be in person together…

Vivian: Yes.

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … and to get to meet you, Eryn, it’s a real treat.

Eryn: I… We’re already friends now.

Lee: We are.

Eryn: I feel it.

Lee: Clearly.

Vivian: Yeah. But Lee, for our listeners, we’d love to hear about your spiritual journey story, like how God became real in your life.

Lee: Oh, I love…

Eryn: There we go.

Lee: … that question. It’s such a good place to get to know someone, too, but I did not grow up in a Christian home…

Eryn: Okay.

Lee: … And so, I grew up in Colorado…

Vivian: Same.

Lee: … And I… I know. And when we were growing up, my parents went through a divorce, and our family just shattered. It’s kind of like a before.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and an after process. And I know…

Eryn: How old were you at that time?

Lee: … I was probably twelve years old…

Eryn: Okay.

Lee: … at the time…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … Old enough to know that this is not the way that things were supposed to be…

Eryn: Right.

Lee: … And that time really marked the beginning of a journey for me in a season of long brokenness…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I remember doing a Bible study not too long ago that tried to look for God in every season of your life which is an incredible exercise…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … that I would recommend. But I remember thinking this period of time, I’m still not sure what happened…

Eryn: Yeah. Wow.

Lee: … But what did happen a few years later when I was seventeen was I finally met Jesus. And it was in this conversation where a friend said, “Lee, do you know Jesus?” And I said, “Yes, but He’s never done anything for me.” And it wasn’t that I didn’t know that Jesus had died on a cross, because that was, like, Easter, right…?

Eryn: Right.

Vivian: Sure, sure.

Lee: … It was that I didn’t understand how that was supposed to relate to our life…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And it was just in this moment and being discipled by a really incredible youth pastor who showed me that God’s word transforms lives and broken places. And so, it really was that core belief that Jesus still speaks to us through His Word…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and can put broken lives back together that really began my journey with Him. And I knew from that time that the healing that I was finding was what I wanted for other people…

Eryn: That’s beautiful.

Lee: … And I think that was my basically call into ministry at the time. The only thing that I know for sure is that Jesus loves me, and that I’m supposed to tell other people about Him…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … So, you know, that’s kind of… that’s how it all started.

Eryn: So, at seventeen, when you… did you just stumble upon going to youth ministry? Or, like, how did that… how did you get connected to this youth pastor?

Lee: I really think that my little sister invited me to go to an event…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … with her. And it was probably…

Eryn: And that was it.

Lee: … incentivized, right?

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … You know, like, you get a bottle of Mountain Dew if you go…

Eryn: And pizza or some…

Lee: … if you bring somebody to…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … youth group or something, but… really, they were there…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and in it, you know? It wasn’t attractional or flashy…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … youth ministry. It was this, like, small Baptist church that… they just saw me. And I… the youth pastor said, “This is the Word of God. If you will read it, it will heal your mind…”

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … And that, I just knew, like…

Eryn: Did… did you want your mind healed at that point? Did you know that it needed to be healed? Was it something you were seeking or…

Lee: It was crystal clear in my mind…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … that I was broken…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … our situation was broken. And you know, seventeen years old is enough time to really dig yourself into a pit of your own…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … variety, right…?

Vivian: Sure.

Eryn: That’s so true.

Lee: … And… and that’s where I was, in the middle. It was guys, it was drinking, it was…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … attention seeking, and at-risk behaviors of all variety…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Sure, yes.

Lee: … So, you know, I was that girl and…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I knew I wanted something different. And praise God that the person that offered that to me was a very godly youth pastor and his wife…

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … And so, I think for the next year of my life, they met with me three or four times a week doing…

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … Bible study.

Vivian: That’s incredible.

Lee: And so, my senior year of high school, I basically was reading my Bible.

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: And they said, hey, we really think you’re a Bible teacher…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And that was so intuitive of them to know, and they basically sent me to Moody Bible Institute, and…

Eryn: That’s amazing.

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … I knew nothing. Second or third day of class we’re, like, taking this test in Old Testament survey, you need to write every book of the Bible in order, and spell it correctly. And I always am like…

Eryn: And if you went to a Christian school, like, you would be… you’d be acing that. May…

Lee: But like…

Eryn: Maybe, maybe not.

Lee: But I was like… “What is Obadiah…?”

Vivian: Right, right.

Lee: … You know? And what is Haggai and how do you spell that exactly?

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … There was no frame of reference…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … And so, everything, it was like I was drowning when I got there. But I was… it was a good drowning, you know?

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … And… and that’s what happened, is that little by little, God transformed me, and I am not who I was. So, it’s growing…

Vivian: You’ve lived out this thing. I… what I love about your story is that it helps remind me that there are teenagers this very moment…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … who are hungry and thirsty to know the truth, that God has been at work in their lives. Their circumstances have been such that they recognize that they have this empty void that only Jesus can fill. And sometimes, to be honest, I forget that. Like, the… the youth today, it can seem like, from a social media perspective or just looking around, that everyone’s fine. But behind every face, there’s a story, and that there’s really a genuine need people have…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … for God, and I think that that reminder is timely. So, it’s so encouraging to hear how that…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … directly correlated even with not only meeting the right people at the same time, but being able to start to learn to dig into God’s Word and to find healing through relationship with God.

Lee: So, you know, like, it’s not like we don’t have a lot going on…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … as a, you know, a crew of three today…

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … But the Lord just laid it so specifically on my heart that I am to be involved in the lives of girls…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … because somebody met me…

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … at that place. So, I have been coaching cheerleading because I was that girl. I was that…

Vivian: Yes.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … cheerleader. And you know what’s just so fun, is that it does not take much to get to the real issues that are…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … in a girl’s life. And as someone who starts and ends meetings with prayer, it is very difficult…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … to not start a practice and end with prayer, you know…?

Vivian: Right, sure.

Lee: … but instead, to just know, like, I can pray, and I can ask a couple of questions that get right to the heart of the matter. And… and I just can’t seem to quit that…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I can’t quit wanting to meet people… Oh, I’m going to cry…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … right at the intersection of where broken leads to healing. And we have that remedy. So even as far…

Vivian: Yeah, right.

Lee: … gone as they seem, the remedy is still the same.

Vivian: I love that.

Eryn: And what’s so beautiful… two things that you just… when you said just get into the heart, like, ask a few direct questions. But what also you were met with was a direct question…

Lee: Oh, yeah.

Eryn: … And I do think while things can change and trends in this day and age… as we watch young girls evolve, that doesn’t change. I think that teenagers, specifically young girls, want to be directly asked, because there are a lot of things that are being thrown at them…

Vivian: Sure.

Eryn: … these questions that can change their life, the trajectory of the decisions they make with boys. Like, I think that that’s just really beautiful, and that was your story, was a pastor asking you directly a question. So, I… I want to ask another question with that… How did that affect your home life? How did your family respond as you started pursuing a relationship with Jesus?

Lee: You know, my parents are great…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I love them. And they would have told you we had a Christian home…

Eryn: Sure.

Lee: … But as someone who has a Christian home, I… we did not have a Christian home…

Vivian: Right.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … you know? Like, that was not what was being…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … celebrated or pursued or really taught or understood…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … So, we did have this moment where I was a desperate seventeen-year-old trying to figure out if my parents, like, actually had a relationship with Jesus or not…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … Did they understand the gospel…?

Eryn: Right.

Lee: … And that was met with a lot of resistance. Because all of a sudden it seemed like I was judgmental and calling the people that were the very closest to me into account, because the veil had been removed at that point…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … Like, cultural Christianity…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … is one thing. Like… and I would say that was a lot more prevalent twenty-five or twenty-seven years ago…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … than it is today, you know? It was, like, a little bit cooler, ots of people were going to youth group at the time…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … But saying to my mom, listen, have you … I mean, I know you say you’re a Christian, but, like, do you really understand the gospel? Do you…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … have you really made Him the savior of your life…?

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … We were speaking two different languages. And there are still some members of my family that we’re speaking different languages…

Vivian: Right.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … But there are others, like my mom. I went away to college, and I really think it was my first year of college and her first year of college where we started to grow together. And so, by God’s grace… we’re in it together. Like, and God is redeeming that broken story…

Vivian: Wow.

Eryn: That’s beautiful.

Lee: … in such a beautiful way right now.

Eryn: That’s so beautiful…

Vivian: Wow.

Eryn: … and it’s so honest. What would you say to the … Maybe there’s a mom listening right now that might fit that space, and she has a daughter that’s knocking down her door and telling her perspective? What would… advice would you give her…

Lee: Well…

Eryn: … if she’s resistant?

Lee: And you know that’s happening right now…

Vivian: Sure, yeah.

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … Like, God is moving…

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … among the young people…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … today. Amen and hallelujah…

Eryn: Yep, yep.

Lee: … But there’s going to be this point where our kids are going to realize, like, something that we have not pursued. And so, there’s grace for that…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … You only need to stay one… day or one step ahead of your child to be leading them spiritually. And then if you miss that boat somehow then hop back in and start going, right…?

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … Like…

Vivian: It’s never too late.

Lee: … the Lord will meet our fervor and meet our pursuit of Him. It is never too late.

Vivian: Yeah. It’s never too late. Well, I would love to hear about your motherhood journey. What has that been like? Like, going into it having not grown up in a… a Christ-centered home…

Lee: Yeah.

Vivian: … I… I might make that distinction, you know? There’s a difference between a Christian home and a home that’s centered on Christ. So, in seeking to have a home centered on Christ, tell us a little bit about your motherhood journey.

Lee: I love that. I met Mike, and he was pursuing the Lord. So that was easy. His mom… has helped raise me spiritually…

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … She’s discipled me. They were missionaries in Indonesia, and she just has been a picture of faithfulness and a student…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … of God…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … and His Word, and so she’s modeled this to me a lot. But when I became a mom, I pretty much covenanted, like, “We will be doing this Jesus’ way.” You know, it… it’s been wonderful and the greatest calling of my life to raise kids who know and love Jesus, and… and it’s been a challenge because I fail at being an example all the time…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … And the blessing is that right now all four of my kids are pursuing the Lord. But there have been stages where I was like, this formula is not working.

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … Our friend Elisa has blessed me so much with her story cause I’m like, well, if it can happen to Elisa, it can happen to me…

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … you know? And the brokenness that we have gone through as our kids choose their own journey…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … It just reminds me so much that we can be doing the things that the Lord has asked us to be…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And this is not a formula.

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … Like, He… I have to trust every day that He is sovereign over the lives of my kids. And that He really does love them…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … But as for me and my house, we will be praying that they walk with the Lord…

Vivian: Yeah.

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Jade: Hey friend, while listening to this episode, have you felt like you’re struggling when you pray to God? Or maybe praying just doesn’t feel natural? We’re extremely excited to offer you the Pray Naturally digital reading plan to help you learn more about talking to God. Or if you need something more, you can check out the book Pray Naturally by Rachel Britton for a hundred and twenty insights to refresh your mindset on prayer. You can find the links for both of those in our show notes. Now back to the show

Vivian: Usually, I would just say on… generally, parents are… are desiring that their kids would do well, and for a believer, that they would know the Lord and walk with the Lord. And there’s the tension because each person has their own journey and their… and a timetable that does not fit. And so, we want to somehow secure an outcome with using formulas, and that… I mean, I think God wrecks us in the best ways when the formulas don’t work because He doesn’t want us to rely on the formula. He wants us to rely on Him…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … And so, for me, over and over, that has been something that God has had to use. Like, you can’t just A plus B equals C…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … There is a bigger picture unfolding, and…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … that is a hard road to walk as a parent because a lot of times we feel responsible that the outcome needs to be somehow produced. And I would love to hear, Lee, how have you navigated that? Like, how… how do you as a parent… hold that tension of doing what we can and also watching our kids at times go on a path that we wouldn’t pick or, you know, where the formula doesn’t seem like it’s working?

Lee: So, prayer entered my life, I can go back to, like, three or four prayers that I have prayed over the course of my life that the Lord…

Eryn: Okay, give them… Give them to us. We want them. We’ll put them in the show notes.

Lee: … Okay…

Eryn: We need them.

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … So, seventeen years old, I prayed, Lord, would You give me a heart for Your Word? And He was faithful to meet that…

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … to give me a desire, because I meet lots of people that don’t have the same desire…

Eryn: Yeah. Yeah, right.

Lee: … especially as a teenager…

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … to hear His Word. So, I was like, if this will heal my mind, then You have to help me want this cause I don’t really…

Vivian: Yeah

Lee: … you know. It’s an old book…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And I had no idea, right? So, He, like, blew those doors open. Well, the next was, Lord, would You give me a heart for lost people? And that was spurred on by a professor in college. I… we had this… personal ministry class, you know, and it taught me how to share my faith. And he said, but you have to pray that God would give you a heart for lost people. And the Lord has been so faithful to break my heart for lost people. But I recognize, like, a lot of Christians don’t want to have a heart for lost people. We’re afraid of them…

Vivian: Right.

Eryn: Right.

Lee: … You know? So that changed. The third prayer was, Lord, would You teach me how to pray? So, it was in answer to that prayer that He introduced me to the vice president of Moms in Prayer International. Because of course that’s how He answers…

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … a prayer like that, right? Like…

Vivian: Abundantly, beyond all that we ask or think.

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … you are on the mat, we’ll bring in the best. You know…? And so, I mean, like, I just… I got to sit with her and learn how to pray and intercede for my kids. And it was there on my knees that I began to finally have those prayers that I wanted to pray…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … coming to fruition. So back to your question, Viv, like, every single morning I’m praying Scripture strategically over my family…

Vivian: Wow. I’ve got goosebumps.

Lee: … And so, I can either have control or I can have faith. And I’m choosing faith every time.

Vivian: Wow.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: So, as far as it depends on me, my kids will be walking with Jesus, not because of how I’m doing, but…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … because of my prayers and faith in how God’s going to do this.

Vivian: Okay.

Eryn: Yeah, so good. How have you… or have you struggled with finding your worth as a mom versus your worth in the Lord and… the performance of your kids? As we’re talking about this, that’s a question that just keeps coming to my mind, that I feel like a lot of moms struggle with, the difference between stewarding… their kids, and then also finding their worth in their kids.

Lee: Yeah.

Eryn: Have you struggled with that? And so, we can all feel normal. And then tell us…

Lee: Yes, currently. Thank you.

Eryn: Okay.

Lee: Yes.

Eryn: So then tell us the journey of that for you, and how you’ve…

Lee: I don’t think it’s…

Eryn: … come to where you are now…

Lee: I don’t…

Eryn: … cause I feel like you’ve broken a little bit free from that. It seems that there’s a lot of freedom from that.

Lee: And as we record this, I still am in a situation with one of my now adult children…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … I have three emptied out…

Eryn: Okay.

Lee: … and one still at home, where I’m saying, this is not the relationship I want to have for the long term.

Vivian: Yeah. Yeah.

Lee: … like, and it breaks me…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and I have to remember that, that reconciliation comes from the Lord…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and that I can pray about it. But at the end of the day, I have no control over this…

Eryn: Right.

Lee: … Like, I’m waiting with open arms, and when that child turns around, I’m going to be running, right?.

Vivian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lee: But I have to wait for that child to turn around. And the brokenness of… recognizing that I can’t control whether they love me or not.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I used to say, I want them to love Jesus and love us…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … And I recognize all of a sudden that the love us was starting to become an idol that I…

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … I was holding…

Eryn: That’s so honest.

Lee: … on so… tightly. And I can want that so much and not have that reciprocated in the ways that feel warm and fuzzy…

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … You know? Like, I want them to say, you were the best mom…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … you wrote parenting books, you know? Like… It… There’s a disclaimer at the front end of all of those, like, this is a from-the-trenches thing. I don’t know how this is going to turn out. But at the end…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … when it’s not turning out the way that I think it should, well, that’s the opportunity that I have to take that very real pain to the Lord. And not one of my children have done this the way that I wanted to…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … I just thought, like, if I’m a believer, and my husband’s a believer…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … and we’re going to church, and we’re reading our Bibles…

Eryn: Yeah, right.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … then they are going to love Jesus, and they’re going to obey me and Him, and we’re going to go to church…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and they’re going to want to go to youth group and…

Eryn: Yeah, right.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … yeah, none of that has been the way that…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … that’s turned out, so… I think it’s, you know, this brokenness that makes me need Him more…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … I sure hope. I mean, if it’s according to the amount of times I’ve prayed that it would be reconciled…

Eryn: Right.

Lee: … it would be reconciled already…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … So, God’s doing something that I don’t understand. And I think I have to wrestle with can I trust Him.

Vivian: Right. Right. And I love that you pray Scripture over your kids as well because…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … I’m a first-born, kind of bossy person, and so a lot of times I’m praying, God, this is the situation, and this is the time that You need to fix it by, and this is the way You could fix it. And here’s a few suggestions for You. And it can seem…

Eryn: You need ideas, and, I mean…

Lee: Yeah.

Vivian: … like that… yeah… you know, kind of a little bossy there… but that’s surrendering the child, the adult child, surrendering the situation, the circumstances, and it’s really… It’s step eleven of the twelve steps is…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … knowledge of God’s will and the power to carry that out, which is a very open posture that’s not bossy and fix it now in this way kind of a prayer. And…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … that’s actually helpful for all of us as people who are trying to follow the Lord, but surrendered. And when you pray Scripture over your kids, what are some of the places that you go to in the Bible that you pray over them on a regular basis?

Lee: Oh, sure. Can I grab my Bible…?

Vivian: Of course.

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … I mean, like, in the cover of my Bible I have their… like, a calendar that I pray character traits over them…

Eryn: Oh, I love that.

Lee: … So, wisdom, humility, peace, that they would be loving, gentle, meek, faith-filled. I mean, I have a Scripture to go with each one…

Vivian: Right. Right.

Lee: … So, I mean, I made the calendar. That’s not always…

Eryn: Did you tape it, too?

Lee: … how I pray? Yeah, it’s taped…

Eryn: … Do you make… I want to see.

Lee: … It’s taped in here, yeah…

Vivian: Oh, that’s beautiful.

Eryn: That’s so cool.

Lee: … And so, I recognize that I can pray my list…

Vivian: Sure.

Lee: … and that’s great. But there is a boldness that comes when you’re praying Scripture…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … And you’re like, out of Ephesians, that they would be filled with the fullness of God…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … you know? Like, that sounds a whole lot better than, In between their classes today, I really…

Eryn: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … hope that they know that You’re with them. Like…

Vivian: Right.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … okay, I do want to pray that…

Vivian: Sure.

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … but I also… when I’m praying the fullness of God, I’m thinking like overflowing…

Vivian: Sure.

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … you know? And… and so, I just think there’s a boldness that has come with that…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … That, you know, I… I… I don’t always have the perfect Scripture come to mind, but I’m kind of doing the work behind the scenes to try to figure out, like, what can I pray…?

Vivian: Yes, yes.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and that helps me figure out what God wants for them or us…

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … in our lives, and then pray those things rather than just circumstances…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Wow.

Lee: … It’s like trying to get to the root of the issue…

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … Otherwise I’ll be chasing what I don’t want them to do also…

Vivian: Exactly.

Lee: … Right? Like…

Eryn: Yup, that’s so true.

Lee: … please keep them away from these people…

Eryn: Yeah, right, right.

Lee: … and these professors… And, you know, and instead it’s just, like, brings me more peace to kind of focus on what to cultivate inside of them.

Vivian: Yeah. That is so helpful…

Eryn: It’s so good.

Vivian: … and so practical. I love that because I picture women listening right now, and as we take time to be in God’s Word it’s not hard to grab a Post-It, and as we’re reading, like, oh, this is a character trait that God wants to develop in us and in our kids, and be able to transfer that, and have that be our entry point of prayer. I think that’s really beautiful, and very practical, too.

Lee: You know, when you, like, open your Bible in the morning and you’re like, oh, that’s so good, and I know some people are against writing in their Bibles, I am not one of those people…

Eryn: Me neither.

Lee: … But I’m like, if I’m like, oh, that’s so good, then, well, then I want to pray that…

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … and I’m like, oh, I want that for somebody…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … you know? Then I… I just feel like it’s a gift that we can give. Sometimes I text them that I’m praying that. Sometimes I text them a picture of my prayer journal, and sometimes I, like, secretly attack them in prayer…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … you know…? And, you know, my prayerfulness and my neediness in turning to the Lord, like, God is the only person that doesn’t find that a complete turnoff, that I am so needy…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And… that I am so worried…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … or concerned about this. And I can say like, no, as far as this depends on me, I have offered this up to You. And there’s comfort there…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … when there’s really no comfort anywhere else…

Eryn: Anywhere else, yup.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … cause I can’t control it…

Vivian: Right, right.

Lee: … I can’t change it. And everything I do seems to make it worse, you know?

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … So, in this broken space aren’t we so glad that the Holy Spirit’s willing to take that groaning and those cries and those places where we’re just done…?

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And… and pray for us. Because all I can say is, ouch. Why? You know?

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Right, right. I so appreciate you sharing that, Lee. It’s… it’s real, and I… I think of few things that are more humbling than being a parent because every season, and a stepparent, it’s like every season is we’ve never been here before.

Lee: Oh, yeah.

Vivian: Like…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … all of a sudden, they got… have teeth, and we’ve never been there before. Like, they… they’re running now. They… we’ve never been here before. They started driving. We’ve never been here before. They are off to college, and who knows what’s going on. We’ve never been here before. So, it’s this trusting, and… and surrender, and humility, because we’ve just never been in the situation we’ve been in, and that… that dependence and that reliance on the Lord is tangible. Because again, it’s… I… for me, it’s a control thing. Like, I would like to be able to control my environment, and I find it freeing to know I’m not in control. But I keep going back to wanting to, like, take the reins back instead of surrendering that.

Lee: So… And that… since we’re already in this safe… place…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I just… I believe in Christian counseling…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I mean, like… like I know my next breath is important. I know that Christian counseling is important, right…?

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … Like, and… my counselor that I have seen for the last fifteen years…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … once a month has said to me, “Don’t should on yourself.”

Eryn: Yeah, yup.

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: Like, “Stop it.”

Vivian: Yes.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: And that has been very healing for me…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … to take that brokenness and just be like, well, I’m doing the best I know how to do…

Vivian: Yeah, yeah.

Lee: … And when I don’t, I can say I’m sorry and…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … start again. But…

Eryn: I love that.

Lee: … the truth is, is that left to my own devices, I probably would be quite depressed. But I think it is really important to have people that you can trust…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … that will help reframe those thoughts…

Eryn: Yep.

Lee: … and protect you, because the enemy is stealing and killing and destroying, you know…?

Vivian: That’s right. That’s right.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And attacking our family, and anybody that is pursuing Jesus is going to be facing the spiritual warfare of some variety…

Eryn: Yep, that’s right.

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … And so having friends that can… can tell us the truth…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … and that we can say, I just don’t get Him… Him…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … this, whatever…

Vivian: Right.

Lee: … and for me, that’s… Christian counseling’s been a… big part of that…

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: That’s awesome.

Lee: … to carry that in and be ready to drop it off, you know…?

Eryn: Yup.

Vivian: Yes, yes.

Lee: … and go to the next thing, cause it’s not going according to plan…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … you know? So…

Eryn: That’s good.

Vivian: I heartily agree… Darren and I joke that our therapists are our paid friends, you know…?

Lee: Yes.

Vivian: …[inaudible] but it… I… there is something about having someone skilled who can help us discern what is our part…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … and what is within our realm, which is really ourselves and what’s not ours to carry. And we… it makes me think of Galatians 6:2, “We bear one another’s burdens, and each person has to carry their own load.” So, there’s only so much we can do… as a parent, or even as a spouse… as a friend. And being able to discern the two, because if we don’t, it gets wonky, and we start burning out because we’re taking responsibility, and we start to micromanage, and that’s not healthy for our kids…

Eryn: No.

Vivian: … to have, moms that micromanage…

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: … So that… that discernment is so key.

Lee: And bless, Eryn, you’re invited, but Viv has been a part of doing this in my life at various times, is, like, we would hold ministry things kind of up to one another and say…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … what do you think about this? And there’s just something about this gift of being with friends that…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … you can talk Scripture…

Vivian: Yeah.

Lee: … or what God really wants…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And I know that there’s a friend who’s listening right now that doesn’t have those people…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … in her life. And that’s really, really hard…

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … I mean, like, if I can say anything, like, do what you can and…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … pray for a Christian community or someone…

Vivian: Yeah.

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … that you can look and sit on the couch and go, is this a me thing? Is this a them thing…?

Eryn: Yeah, yeah, right, exactly.

Vivian: Yeah. Yes, yes.

Lee: … Is this a…

Vivian: Yes.

Lee: … where, what?

Eryn: Yes.

Lee: … Cause when it’s a mom thing, it all feels like your responsibility…

Vivian: Totally, totally.

Lee: … you know? It’s like…

Eryn: Yeah.

Lee: … And it really isn’t all our responsibility…

Eryn: Right.

Vivian: No, yeah.

Lee: … You know? So, having help to discern that is just so valuable.

Eryn: Yeah.

Vivian: Lee, I picture you … Well, actually, I picture your children’s children, and maybe even your children’s children’s children, learning about Grandma or Great-Grandma and the prayer warrior that she was, that they would be the ones sitting around a table, pulling out your Bible, going, look, we are here because Grandma or Great-Grandma or Great-Great-Grandma Lee prayed for us in these ways. And… and it brings tears to my eyes because I think that is legacy, that is an investment in what… into the people we have not and may not ever meet. And yet, one day in heaven, we’re going to see how it all worked together. How all… how God was answering prayer, even if we didn’t see on this side of heaven what was going on, but that there was something really altering and shifting because of this commitment to pray. Prayer is such a humble posture because we… no one knows. I mean, ultimately the Lord knows, but it’s not showy or flashy, but it is the hard work, and I think of you, Lee, as… an example and a prayer warrior. And I think it would be so great if we could ask Lee to pray for our listeners.

Lee: Oh, I would love that, you guys. Heavenly Father, we just love that You are available at all times. There’s no open or closed hours with You. There’s no place that You don’t want to meet us, and I’m so grateful that we don’t have to pay You to sit on a couch to listen to us. But that You, Lord, are right here, willing and ready to hear Your daughters. And so, Father, we do just turn to You and… thank You for our friends that are listening and here with us on the couch today, and ask that they would feel Your presence, and that they would understand that it’s here in the middle of the brokenness where You show up best. And that You do have a desire to transform the situation that they’re in… we just know that You’re in the process and committed to the work of changing us into the image of Jesus. And so, Father, I just pray for the moms that are feeling hopeless right now, and who don’t know how this is going to work out, and that love their children and want to do it well. Father, I just pray that You would meet them in that place. That there would be a great revival of our children saved, and they would be one, and that they would be soul winners as well. Father, I’m so thankful that You allow us to hold onto our kids in prayer, but that we can trust You with the results. And so, Father, in all these broken situations, we hand it to You and we say, we need You to work. You’re the only one who can. And we love You. It’s in Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.

Vivian: Amen.

Eryn: Amen. Thank you, Lee.

Vivian: Thanks, Lee.

Lee: Thanks, friends.

[Music]

Eryn: Well, friends, be sure to check out our website to subscribe to our email list or check out the God Hears Her books and devotionals. Find that and more at godhearsher.org. That’s godhearsher.org.

Vivian: Thank you for joining us, and don’t forget, God hears you, He sees you, and He loves you because you are His.

[Music}

Eryn: Today’s episode was engineered by Anne Stevens and produced by Jade Gustman and Mary Jo Clark.

Jade: We also want to thank Linda and Emily for all of their help and support. Thanks, everyone. And be sure to keep an eye out for the big God Hears Her finale coming this fall. Follow our socials or subscribe to our YouTube channel to make sure you don’t miss it. You can find all those links on our website or in our show notes.

Vivian: Our Daily Bread Ministries is a donor-supported, non-profit ministry dedicated to making the life-changing wisdom and stories of the Bible come alive for all people around the world.

[Music]

Vivian: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.