The God Hears Her Podcast Finale

God Hears Her Podcast 

Episode 237 – The God Hears Her Podcast Finale 

Elisa Morgan, Eryn Eddy Adkins, and Vivian Mabuni with Mary Jo Clark and Jade Gustman 

 

[Music] 

 

Elisa Morgan: You’re listening to God Hears Her, a podcast for women where we explore the stunning truth that God hears you.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Join our community of encouraging one another and learning to lean on God through scripture, story, and conversation at godhearsher.org.  

Vivian Mabuni: God hears her. Seek and she will find.  

Jade Gustman: Hey, friends. Welcome to the God Hears Her podcast finale. It’s Jade speaking, one of the producers of the God Hears Her podcast. You’ll see and hear me in today’s episode.  

Mary Jo Clark: And I’m Mary Jo, the other producer you’ll see and hear in the finale. We have an exclusive behind-the-scenes look at our podcast process to show you today for our final episode. 

Jade Gustman: This is gonna be a really bittersweet time together as we reflect on the years of the podcast. Come along with us as we start with the hosts getting their makeup done and then move into the podcast office where we would sit before every recording. And then stay with us for the final God Hears Her podcast conversation. 

Mary Jo Clark: You can either watch or listen to follow along, but we highly encourage you to watch this episode on YouTube or the Our Daily Bread Ministries media hub to see all of the sets and the spaces where we got to work on this podcast through the years.  

Jade Gustman: Well, here we go. The final episode of the God Hears Her podcast. 

Jade Gustman: Hey, Eryn. Today is kinda different- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm  

Jade Gustman: because we’ve never had our makeup done for-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah 

Jade Gustman: the podcast. Doesn’t this feel kinda extra special?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I feel so special. Help me out with my tired eyes. Make them really big.  

Mary Jo Clark: That’s what I need. Eryn, we’re gonna start with some fun- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Ooh … 

Mary Jo Clark: just off-the-cuff questions.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I love those. Okay.  

Mary Jo Clark: What do you think is your most embarrassing moment as a leader or a mom?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh. Gosh. Okay. As a mom, one time… This came to my mind, so I’m just gonna share it. 

Jade Gustman: Please. Say it. 

Mary Jo Clark: Please do. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh my gosh. One time I was at Zara with Livvy. She was, at the time, six, and she’s my stepdaughter. And we were shopping, and we’re in the checkout line, and there’s people in the checkout line with us. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And she goes, “Eryn, oh my gosh, you have a hair.” And I was like, “What? What do you mean?” And she’s like, “You have a hair, and it’s on your armpit.” I was so embarrassed. The entire checkout now knew that I had an armpit hair that I missed shaving, and all of them knew. I turned beet red. I, like… And I wanted to be cool and be like, “No, Liv. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Like, I’m cool.” You know? Like, trying to get, grow a relationship with her. I was so embarrassed. That would be my, one of my most em- that came to my mind, so that has to go on.  

Mary Jo Clark: I love that. Okay, we’re taking a pivot.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Okay. Oh, no.  

Mary Jo Clark: We’ve had our time for laughter and joy. But now the question. How are you feeling about the God Hears Her podcast finale? 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Hmm. I have a peace about it. Um, and I also have a lot of grief around it.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh, gosh. Angie, I’m gonna cry. 

Angie: That’s okay.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Help me. I have mascara. I feel it. Okay, good. You may have to do my eyes again. Um, I, uh, the, ’cause the show gifted me so much. 

Jade Gustman: Mhmm 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I changed so much- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: throughout it, just me personally developing into more of a woman of God. So, and that was developed through listening to other women- 

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: … share their stories, their trials, and so I’m definitely gonna miss that part.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: At the very beginning of the podcast, why did you decide to be part of it?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm, that’s such a good question. I had always prayed since I was, like, a little girl. Like, my dad would pray over me like, “We, I want you to, you know, your light to shine so bright that people ask where it came from.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And then after walking through a divorce, I felt like I was just, everything was dim and everything was dark. And I had a, my student pastor speak over me that I shouldn’t influence women, ’cause I’ll normalize divorce-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: for young women. So then that spoke a belief that, like, my voice should be quieted, and it doesn’t matter, or I’m now, um- A flawed or, you know, damaged goods. And I got a c- that week that that pastor told me that, I got a call to be on the podcast, and I felt like it was God’s invitation to showing me how He redeems. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Um, and so I think, um, I said yes because I wanted to re- remind women that no matter their hardship or, um, the things that they’ve gone through, that, that God has the final say, and I wanted to use my story to help other women.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. Which you have so much. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Thanks, Jade. Thanks, Mary Jo. 

Jade Gustman: Elisa… 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm  

Jade Gustman: I’m gonna start asking you questions.  

Elisa Morgan: Okay, baby. You know what time it is.  

Jade Gustman: My first one… 

Elisa Morgan: Okay 

Jade Gustman: What do you think of when I say Burger King Whopper? 

Elisa Morgan: Burger King Whopper. I think of Whack-A-Mole. I, I think of the crown. I think, oh, I think I’m hungry. Oh, I know what it is.  

Elisa Morgan: I think of meeting my husband. 

Elisa Morgan: ‘Cause I walked into … We were in seminary. I walked into the library, and he was walking out, and we had only met, like, a day before, and I said, “Do you wanna go to lunch?” 

Elisa Morgan: And he said, “Sure, where do you wanna go?” And I said, “Let’s go to Burger King and get a Whopper.” And that was it. That was w- it was a Whopper. 

*laughter* 

Elisa Morgan: Oh, yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: All right, Elisa, going back a few years, why did you decide to be part of the God Hears Her podcast?  

Elisa Morgan: Mm. Honestly, I’ve been involved with Our Daily Bread Ministries for a lot of years, um, doing Discover the Word, writing for them, doing the videos, et cetera, and there wasn’t anything specifically for women. 

Elisa Morgan: I mean, I had written some books, but they were mixed audience, too, and I just have a real heart to connect with women. I had joked before that, you know, in my early life I didn’t really even like women, but then God put me in this whole trajectory of working with women, moms, grandmas, people, singles, whoever. 

Elisa Morgan: So the opportunity to help women know that God hears them, not just that we are looking to hear from God, but that God hears them, is just amazing. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: I’m so excited. 

Jade Gustman: Okay, Viv. 

Vivian Mabuni: Okay. 

Jade Gustman: Here we go.  

Vivian Mabuni: Here we go.  

Jade Gustman: Starting off getting our makeup. So weird and different from usual.  

Vivian Mabuni: Oh, we never do this.  

Jade Gustman: No.  

Vivian Mabuni: This is a, a first, or a second maybe.  

Jade Gustman: Well, we have some fun questions to kinda start you off, get you in the mood for today, ’cause today’s a big day.  

Vivian Mabuni: It is.  

Jade Gustman: There’s a lot going on. So, my first question for you What is your favorite restaurant and why?  

Vivian Mabuni: Ooh. Okay, this is my personal opinion, but it seems like prices have gone up- 

Vivian Mabuni: … and quality has gone down- 

Jade Gustman: Oh, yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: … in just about every restaurant I’ve been to. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: So, my favorite restaurant is our own home now. For example, in California there are some great Japanese, um, markets that bring in really high quality, um, fish, and my husband makes this amazing sashimi. And so, so we can eat really, really well for, you know, a fraction of the cost. So my favorite place is our home.  

Mary Jo Clark: That’s beautiful. We’re switching gears now.  

Vivian Mabuni: Okay.  

Mary Jo Clark: What has the God Hears Her podcast community meant to you?  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm. I love the heart behind the mission of women being seen. So, anything to do with elevating the experience of women is just kind of my heart. 

Vivian Mabuni: But I just, I love the vision to continue to encourage women. That’s really been the driving force of the community, has been such an extension of, I think, what’s the heart of Mary Jo, Jade, you know, Elisa, and Eryn. Like, there’s just been … And Anne. Like, that’s just been our, um, kind of our North Star is serving the women. And so that community has been really meaningful, to know that we were able to do that together. 

[Music] 

Vivian Mabuni: Let’s go. Let’s go.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yay. 

Vivian Mabuni: Alright. 

Jade Gustman: We’re doing it.  

Vivian Mabuni: We’re together.  

Jade Gustman: This is what we would do before every podcast recording in person.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: We’d hang out-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: ..sit in here, catch up on life, and it was always the time before the crazy busyness started.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Like, we’d eat lunch, we’d connect-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: we’d finish our coffees.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And this was our rhythm. This was our routine.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I mean, I’d come in, and I’d have a therapy session with Jade and with Mary Jo. While I waited for y’all to come in.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I would come in and be like, “I’m dating this guy.”  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. I remember that. Yep. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: “I’m dating this guy.”  

Elisa Morgan: I remember all those guys. 

Mary Jo Clark: And then the right guy.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And then I’m dating Jesus.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. Jesus was the best guy.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, He was the best.  

Elisa Morgan: Except you did pretty well at the end there, but think of all the life changes-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: … we’ve experienced together.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah, so much.  

Elisa Morgan: I mean, you were talking about all the guys you dated, but anyway. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Well, I only dated one.  

Elisa Morgan: I know. But, but- She did have a big season with Jesus. But now, now you’re married. You’ve been married for-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: … years.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And you have three-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: … wonderful bonus girls.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. You know? And, and- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: It’s crazy. 

Elisa Morgan: … just look around at our lives.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, Jade, you weren’t married-  

Mary Jo Clark: She wasn’t married. 

Elisa Morgan: when we started this either.  

Mary Jo Clark: She wasn’t graduated out of college.  

Jade Gustman: And I was 20. Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: I was 20 years old.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Wow.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah, still in college-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

 Jade Gustman: …when we started this.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. That’s amazing. And I’ve had two grandchildren.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: Two additional ones. 

Mary Jo Clark: And I’ve had two children.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. And you’ve had two children. Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Wow. Yeah. Wait, I was 33.  

Elisa Morgan: You were a baby girl.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. The, even just that. Oh. Like, thinking early 30s now-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah …  

Mary Jo Clark: and both of us-  

Vivian Mabuni: Right. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: … later 30s. Yeah. Just that-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm…  

Mary Jo Clark: age-  

Elisa Morgan: Huge…  

Mary Jo Clark: feels so, yeah…  

Elisa Morgan: yeah. They’re a couple of decade shifts, but I’m not gonna talk about that.  

Mary Jo Clark: We’ll just say 30s.  

Elisa Morgan: Stay with the 30s. Yeah, stay with the 30s. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s crazy. 

Vivian Mabuni: Truly, that’s really, like, milestones-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …and we’re celebrating this, so we have our own little text thread.  

Mary Jo Clark: And graduated seminary.  

Vivian Mabuni: Oh, yeah. Yes.  

Mary Jo Clark: I wanna add that.  

Vivian Mabuni: Got my master’s. Had a sabbatical. That was really fun. And you, first home, I mean-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …those are all huge deals.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: But I think about how our conversations changed-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …as our experiences changed and-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …the kinds of questions we would ask-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …how we would-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yes. 

Vivian Mabuni: …even engage with our, our guests-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …had everything to do with the fact that our lives were changing and-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: So true.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That was, I think that’s the beauty of having years.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yes.  

Vivian Mabuni: And having-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: … life.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. You, you’re making me think, Viv, that, um, you know, it started just with two hosts, and then you came in. But there was a, an ongoing trust-building-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: ….you know, between us, and between all five of us.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And Anne, too, and, um, y- I think it really does change-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah  

Elisa Morgan: …what it’s like in terms of a conversation.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, we really tried to not just have interviews, you know?  

Jade Gustman: Right.  

Elisa Morgan: And so, we really tried to have a conversation.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And so, we might be prepared in a certain way, but then when you’re in that moment-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …you know, the importance of listening to what’s actually being said-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: and responding to that. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah, and you guys-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: So true. 

Jade Gustman: … always did such a good job of following the storylines through-  

Jade Gustman: …the podcast. ‘Cause we’d have prep, and we’d have questions for you guys to go through.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: But then when a guest started opening up, you knew exactly where to carry the story-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: …every time. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Aw.  

Jade Gustman: And all of our guests just always felt so safe and welcomed. Like, I think almost all of them at the end were like, “I’ve never done anything like this.” 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, I know.  

Jade Gustman: Like, this is so different from any other podcast.  

Elisa Morgan: That felt so good.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. We would get that feedback consistently.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And as planned as producers have to be, and, I mean, Jade would provide questions for you guys.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Oh, yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: But the thing that was so important to us as a whole, and that she did before every episode, was to pray that it was Spirit-led.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And so, like there’s space for planning.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Planning is so important.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yep. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, but we want such authenticity. 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And we want God to speak through these stories-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: …even if it’s not the direction we had in mind.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yep. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Well, and before every recording, too, with that prayer, and I got this from Mary Jo, I carried it on, but she started it. We’d always remind our guests and us-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm  

Jade Gustman: …the mission of our podcast is to reach women in the beautiful and messy moments of life by reminding them that they are seen, heard, and loved by God. And we always started every interview remembering that.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: And Mary Jo started it. You were the first producer of the podcast.  

Mary Jo Clark: I was the first female producer.  

Jade Gustman: First female.  

Mary Jo Clark: I wanna give Daniel his credit.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. Sorry, Daniel.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Sorry, Daniel.  

Mary Jo Clark: But to Jade’s point, I was able to lead it for a year and a half. Um, and then I joyfully was pregnant with my son, Milo. So then I left for short-term disability-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm 

Mary Jo Clark: …cause I had him, and that’s what we call maternity leave. Um, and Jade stepped into the role of lead producer.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mhmmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And has been crushing it ever since.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yes.  

Mary Jo Clark: And I’m so grateful for her, um, leading this. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, and in that, when I returned, we joked since then that I became the grandma. I am the grandma of God Hears Her. Not the originator, not the starter, but, um, but it wasn’t my baby anymore.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: I had my baby. Um, so I stepped into the grandma role. And-  

Elisa Morgan: It’s the best role.  

Mary Jo Clark: It is a great role. Oh my gosh, no actual responsibility over it. I get to have fun.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Feed it candy and drop it off.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: I get to share wisdom and perspective. What? Like, and then, you know, just the full responsibility was hers, and I just got to speak into it. Um, but then my favorite part was that when mom was away, I got to babysit the kids.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: You know?  

Elisa Morgan: That’s right.  

Mary Jo Clark: So there were times when, very rarely, um, that she was unavailable for the shoot or-  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure, yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …a recording and I got to step in.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, but in this grandmother role, I would love to share a blessing-  

Mary Jo Clark: …before we step into the studio today to record our final episode. Growing up, I, every Sunday at church, we would do the offering plate. We’d pass around the offering plate, and we would sing the Doxology together.  

Mary Jo Clark: And I just feel so fitting today to be able to recite that together.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mmhmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, this whole experience has been such a blessing from God.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: And reflecting, thinking about offering on Sunday– 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: …we have all offered our talents and our gifts to God through this podcast. And I just want to take a moment to say the doxology. You guys can join me if you know it. Listeners can join me as well, or just say it in their head, or learn it for the first time today. 

Jade Gustman: Mm. Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: So, let’s start.  

Everyone Together: Praise God from whom all blessings flow. Praise Him all creatures here below. Praise Him above ye heavenly hosts. Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Amen.  

Jade Gustman: Amen. Well, we can go into the studio.  

Vivian Mabuni: Let’s do it. 

Mary Jo Clark: Let’s do it. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: All right, let’s do this. Let’s do our final.  

Jade Gustman: Let’s go ladies.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm. Okay.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Alright. 

Jade Gustman: Alright. Here we go guys.  

Vivian Mabuni: Here we go. Here we go. 

Jade Gustman: This is kinda like the worst part.  

Mary Jo Clark: It is.  

Jade Gustman: Like, the anticipation in coming in.  

Elisa Morgan: Get yourself a meat stick. 

 Jade Gustman: Yeah, all the snacks.  

Jade Gustman: The last one. We’re doing it. 

Vivian Mabuni: Oh, it looks so good.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-mm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Awww. 

Mary Jo Clark: Our little set.  

Jade Gustman: Here we go.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Alright.  

Matt Huizenga: Okay. God Hears Her finale, scene four, take one. 

Jade Gustman: So today has been a long day. We’ve been doing a lot, from getting our makeup done and then having, like, a recap conversation about the whole podcast in our office. And I’m gonna be honest, this is the part that I’ve been dreading. The final podcast recording, where we’re actually in the studio, and today we’re gonna talk about community because we’re sending off our podcast community to find their own new community without being able to listen to new episodes. The podcast will still exist. People can still listen to it. But we won’t be doing this anymore.  

Jade Gustman: So, this is just a big change, and it feels different.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: I don’t know if you guys feel different. 

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. You know, and I’m not a big not crier, but I feel a little wah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: It is weird. And, you know, we’ve talked about this, um, we have community amongst the five of us.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: But we also have it with our listeners and observers, and they do life with us.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And so there’s, like, multiple layers-  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. Yep. 

Elisa Morgan: …of change going on here.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, it’s true. 

Vivian Mabuni: And I think it’s great that we have this space because being able to end well is-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yes.  

Vivian Mabuni: …a really important-  

Eryn Eddy Adkin: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …life skill. 

Elisa Morgan: That’s good, Viv.  

Vivian Mabuni: And so hopefully in modeling this too, I mean, this is part of life. We all have places where there are endings.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: And endings lead to beginnings. 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Um, but it’s important to know how to end well.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, I’m grateful for this space.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And the intentionality. You guys have done a great job-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …planning it.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: As you said, Viv, endings are a really important part of life, you know? 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And I think about in, in John chapter 15, where Jesus talks about the vine and the branches and the need for pruning. And we always think of it as kind of a negative thing, like, you know, “You’re bad and so we’re pruning you.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Right.  

Elisa Morgan: But when we let go of things-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: …when things end, it’s also so that new things can grow.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s good.  

Mary Jo Clark: And how many times that we have endings, we don’t have the opportunity for closure, right? 

Vivian Mabuni: Often.  

Mary Jo Clark: And so, what a gift that today we get to experience that together and hopefully be able to provide that for our listeners and the greater God Hears Her community.  

Vivian Mabuni: I’m just glad that it’s in person and not over Zoom.  

Mary Jo Clark: Oh, my goodness, yes.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Honestly, me too. 

Elisa Morgan: That’s hard to do. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. We couldn’t have done it virtually. It just wouldn’t have been the same. 

Mary Jo Clark: And it still wouldn’t have felt real.  

Jade Gustman: No. 

Mary Jo Clark: If it was virtual-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …it would’ve felt like we’re just gonna do it again next week. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: So, this is extra special.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, it is.  

Jade Gustman: And kind of speaking of that, this is a little bit of a pivot, but I mean, we did a lot of our recordings where you guys were in your homes. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And Mary Jo and I were here. So just thinking about life outside of the podcast-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm  

Jade Gustman: …what does your community look like?  

Elisa Morgan: Huh.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: That is so good. Um, for, like, 20 years I was a part of a, we called ourselves a covenant group, and it was a group of maybe 10 women, I think. All of them were at least 10 years older than me. 

Jade Gustman: Oh. 

Elisa Morgan: And we met monthly And I looked back at it, I mean, we met for about 20 years, like I said, and-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm  

Elisa Morgan:…I looked back at it and I thought, “Why were there so many women older than me?” And, and finally I began to understand that I’d had a weird mothering situation with my own mom, and it’s like I needed 10 moms. 

Jade Gustman: Aw.  

Elisa Morgan: You know? So- Yeah. So God placed that around me. But I think that’s part of, of our experience is that community changes-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …through the different eras and decades of our lives. You know, I was a part of MOPS International-  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …now The Mom Co. forever. And that season of early mothering is a season when moms uniquely need other moms. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And then you begin to grow and maybe you have different comm- but community is like an ever-changing-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, it is. 

Elisa Morgan: …need.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Well, interestingly, like a month ago, my husband had a heart attack.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: Gratefully, he’s doing great.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Um, but in that moment, that question of who’s really community really became-  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good. 

Vivian Mabuni: evident to me because-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: I realized that it’s through the investment of relationships over the course of time and who were the people that came to the hospital? Who were the people that-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah  

Vivian Mabuni: … brought meals, and even after the meal train was full and said, “It was full, but we still wanted to bring you something.” 

Mary Jo Clark: Yes.  

Vivian Mabuni: And so… But to me, it was telling-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …that there were people that I wanted to know what was going on in real time.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Your… This, our community here was one of those-  

Elisa Morgan: That’s right. 

Vivian Mabuni: … group texts-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …that I wanted you all to be aware of what was going on.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: I knew that you’d be praying. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: And I think that’s an indicator, and I think that that’s where, when there has been investment-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …those are the people that you want to come close-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …in a time when you’re in any type of a crisis.  

 Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, yay, God Hears Her family.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. Yes. And I wanna add on to that because even when not in, like, crisis moments, I know for me, um, after having m- my f- first child, there was such a season of isolation for me. 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: I did go back to work, so I have such an amazing work community.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mmmmm.   

Mary Jo Clark: Um, the podcast team specifically is like a family to me.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: So, when having to leave my home and my baby for a day, I got to be with people who loved me well, even though they weren’t in the same season or experience as me. 

Vivian Mabuni: Sure.  

Mary Jo Clark: But further than that, knowing I’m looking past the God Hears Her community, I have had so many friends that have waited patiently for me while I was in a se- a difficult season of like- Unavailability.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mmmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: I think of some of my best friends that have been my friends since college, and we’ve, um, my friend Erin, we’ve… 

Mary Jo Clark: Different Erin.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Great name.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. Love Erin. She’s my friend Erin. She sounds awesome. Well, and w- I, we c- I call her Erns, so- Oh, yeah … I’ll just say Erns.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, Milo calls her Auntie Erns.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh, cute.  

Mary Jo Clark: And, um, she and I have seen each other once a month since college.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Wow.  

Mary Jo Clark: And she’s an hour away-  

Elisa Morgan: That’s great. 

Mary Jo Clark: and we are just so intentional.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Even in that time of isolation, like that was the friendship I was able to carry through, and to see that in different seasons. But I just think of three of my lovely friends right now-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: …that waited for me.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm. Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: They had patience when I was unable to do anything except-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: just maybe text, and I just-I’m so grateful. I know we have friends for a season sometimes.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: But I’m so grateful for those friends that also have the perseverance, and God’s-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Mary Jo Clark: …like gifted them for a lifetime.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And that’s just what I’m grateful for today.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mmm. That’s really beautiful. 

Elisa Morgan: You know, I really appreciate your bringing up the whole thing of perseverance and intentionality.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: ‘Cause, you know, you know, whether you watch the TV shows Friends or the, you know, the sitcoms-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …or whatever, we get this impression that it’s easy-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right. 

Elisa Morgan: …to have community.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: And the intentionality of your commitment of your friends that you’re talking about, MJ, I- I’m thinking about one of my very best friends who’s a decade or so older than me, who’s now experiencing- diminishment-  

Elisa Morgan: and specifically of her mind. And, you know, it’s really easy to go, “Well, she won’t notice if I-  

Multiple: Yeah  

Elisa Morgan: …come or not.”  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And the Lord has really prodded me. It’s a, it’s a drive for me, uh, to go to see her, but every time I’m so glad- and I know she is. And, and we go through these seasons, like you’re saying. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Sometimes it’s easy, and she’s given to me over the years, you know?  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: But it’s my turn now to be there. So, I think when we… And, you know, sometimes we do that.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, we, “Let’s talk.” You know?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: “It’s time.”  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: “We’re not recording anything, but let’s-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …let’s connect, and, and I need to hear your heart on this topic.” There is a, a way-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …we keep the friendships vital-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …by investing.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I, um, I w- I was just recently having this conversation with one of my dear friends, where we have… Because my husband’s, uh, on staff at a church-…communities, we’re pretty surrounded-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …by a lot of different friends and different circles even within their friend groups too, um, especially with, like, the musicians and the people that serve. And so we are surrounded. But I was sharing how for me community has been rebuilt-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: ….because I had community hurt, which we have an episode on that.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yes.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right, right. Yeah. That’s good. That’s good.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And it’s messy, and-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …sometimes when there is a rupture in your life some people stay.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Some people go.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. That’s right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And there’s a lot of hurt, and then there’s relearning how to trust again.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And relearning how to be vulnerable again.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You know?  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And so I was sharing with one of my friends, um, in our current community that’s been beautiful to see God rebuild and redeem in my story personally, but I was telling her, I was like, “You know- As we get older, as we grow old together as a group of friends, I just wanna always make sure that we have a pulse on things, that if we see something-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: that, that’s maybe disturbing, you know-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …within our friend group, that we go to the person. Like, creating that culture-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …of trust and safety- 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …and, um, compassion and grace-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …that is required for community.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That is required for change and pivoting and growth. Like change and endings are so hard.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And we’ll, we’ll be met with those emotions many times in our life. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Many, many, many, many, many times in our life, and who are we gonna do it with, and who’s trustworthy to do it with?  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And are we trustworthy?   

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And are we-  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …the ones that are gonna build that also?  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And so it’s just, it’s been interesting. I was telling her, I was like, “From my past, I just wanna apply the things that, that have maybe gone wrong that I wish would’ve happened-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …that I wish I would’ve been maybe more aggressive in confronting or more tender in the-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …way that I worded things.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Um, how can I do that and show up in a community that’s been rebuilt for me after-  

Jade Gustman: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …another type of community did end?  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And it was hard how it ended. 

Vivian Mabuni: Right. And I honestly feel like right now in families-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: and in churches and in our nation, there’s so much polarization, there’s so much division.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: And it’s hard when we have conflicting views-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …or values even to still maintain connection.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yes.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: And so that kind of, it, it really does require a humility-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: and I think a posture like you’re talking about, Eryn-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …where, you know, there’s just a, a kindness that we exhibit-  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …with one another.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: I think a real willingness and a intentional effort to listen.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Um, when people start talking and maybe you don’t agree with what-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Elisa Morgan: they’re saying, you know, w- our natural inclination is to go back to, “Well, how can I correct this?” You know?  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Or, “How can I debate this?”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Or, “How can I-  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …how can I sell them on my view?” You know-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …kind of thing.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Or fix them.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah, there’s that. Yeah. But if, if we pause, and I think patience is a big piece too- 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: and really listen and hear their story and, and maybe even repeat it back.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, the whole formula of what I hear you saying is that- 

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm  

Elisa Morgan: …blah, blah, blah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And what I think about that is blah, blah, blah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And how I feel is blah, blah, blah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And it’s connection. You know-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Elisa Morgan: it’s communicating to connect rather than to change or correct-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yes.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, if you will. Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Bible engagement, what’s the verse? Uh, quick to listen, slow to anger.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And then I’m missing another slow one.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Right?  

Vivian Mabuni: It’s James. Do you want me to read it? 

Mary Jo Clark: Please.  

Vivian Mabuni: Um- I know that one I should have it- 

Mary Jo Clark: There’s the Bible. Let’s open it.  

Vivian Mabuni: You know, I should probably have this one memorized, maybe tattooed. I don’t know. I got-  

Jade Gustman: Elisa, do you have it memorized?  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah, you have the whole Bible memorized, right? Can you pull this one out? 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: We just, we need you to recall it. We need you to recall it.  

Elisa Morgan: It’s in a section on the tongue.  

Vivian Mabuni: Okay. Yes. It’s James chapter 1. Um, verse 19, “My dear brothers and sisters, understand this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger.”  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. And just thinking through like you brought up the Spirit. Like just praying for the fruit of the Spirit to enter and just have patience-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

 Mary Jo Clark: …and maybe even peace as we talk to people. ‘Cause it doesn’t- Yeah … mean you have to agree. I wanna clarify too. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: You don’t have to agree with what they’re saying. 

 Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: It is polarizing.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: But to just keep building community together, listening to that verse and just consider. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Music: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Quick to listen- Slow to speak  

Vivian Mabuni: …slow to speak and slow to anger.  

Mary Jo Clark: And slow to anger.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: And there’s two slows.  

Elisa Morgan: So maybe just changing-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: … just a tiny bit. You know, we’re facing an ending here-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …with God Hears Her in a more than once a month, you know, but more like every-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: almost every week-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …kind of conversations with each other.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: I know a lot of people are facing endings.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Maybe you’re graduating from a school-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …or you’re moving to a new location, or you’re in a divorce or, you know, endings. What can we do in endings to keep community?  

Mary Jo Clark: Hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: And sometimes that means having a label affixed to me. You know- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …now I’m a single mom-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: … or whatever and-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …ugh, it’s a whole new identity formation.  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure, sure.  

Elisa Morgan: But you know, what, what comes to mind? Yeah. ‘Cause we’ve lived a lot of life.  

Jade Gustman: My first thing, I’m really big on grief right now. I’m someone-  

Mary Jo Clark: Why is that? 

Elisa Morgan: Here’s a Kleenex. Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: Timely.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah, right? We’ve talked about like off-camera how I’m not typically someone that like shows my emotions a lot. Like, I tend to just act like everything’s okay and-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.   

Jade Gustman: …put on a brave face and just like smile it away kinda thing.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And so I’ve really been feeling like the Lord has been stripping away a lot of things that I find security in and a lot of things that I’ve put my identity in, and this is one of them.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Like, I’ve been a lead producer for this podcast. My whole job has been thinking about the God Hears Her podcast, and it’s been like my day-to-day.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And even like going home, my husband would get so mad at me ’cause I’d still respond to emails and text messages.  

Mary Jo Clark: You like it. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. And so now it’s- this thing is going away that has been- Just 

Jade Gustman: I didn’t wanna cry today.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Um, it’s so important. And just thinking about all the women that the show has touched and what it’s meant to them, and how it’s changed me, changed Mary Jo, changed you guys, and all the other women who have listened, who have remained faithful to our show through the years. 

Jade Gustman: Um, I know women like my mother-in-law who has favorite episodes-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …that she’ll go back to. 

 Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: And she’ll listen to them. 

Vivian Mabuni: I’ve got you. I’ve got you, girl.  

Jade Gustman: Um, it fell-  

Elisa Morgan: Don’t mess up your makeup now, okay?  

Jade Gustman:…all the way down my face. Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: Okay. Okay.  

Jade Gustman: Oh, well.  

Elisa Morgan: Don’t do that.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You look great. You’re good.  

Jade Gustman: I don’t care. We can show my tears. Um- But it’s just my mother-in-law, when she’s having a hard day, there’s a couple episodes that she’ll go back to. And when I told her that the show was ending, I was dreading that conversation because I know how much this podcast means to her. And we actually, our episode with Mandy Arioto-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Jade Gustman: She is the president of MOPS, or now it’s The Mom Co. Mom Co, yeah. And in her episode, she talked about how every day at the dinner table when she was a kid, her mother would say, “Go out and have an adventure.” And my grandmother-in-law, so my mother-in-law, Melanie’s mother, passed away-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Aw. 

Jade Gustman: … um, right before I was editing that episode. And that was, like, the first part of my grief, losing her And then I come into work and I have to edit this episode for The Mom Co, which Joy, Grandma Joy, absolutely loved The Mom Co. Loved Mandy, um, loved Elisa Morgan loved God Hears Her, um, and was always so supportive and would check in. And so for that episode, the whole time I just thought about her and how much she would’ve loved it.  

Jade Gustman: And so, at the end, we gave a special memorial for Grandma Joy in the episode. And my mother-in-law also has a letter from her mom, Grandma Joy, when she passed away, um, she left a letter for Melanie, and in it she said, “Go out and have an adventure.” 

Elisa Morgan: Oh. Gosh.  

Jade Gustman: And so my mother-in-law, whenever she misses her mom will play that episode.  

Elisa Morgan: Oh wow. That’s precious.  

Eryn Eddy Adkis: Oh.  

Vivian Mabuni: Wow. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s so sweet.  

Jade Gustman: So, there’s a lot of memories tied into the show, and there’s a lot of grief in letting it go and knowing how many women are also gonna be grieving.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: So, to gently enter that space.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, w- we are saying goodbye, and we’ve been really focusing on doing that together in the last hours we’ve been together, these last couple of days we’ve been together. You know, and so as listeners need to let go, you know, you could also find your favorite episode and, and stay in touch. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: But when things end What steps can we take? I mean, just practically, how can we help ourselves-  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …find new community? It, ’cause like what you’re saying, Jade, it’s a good example. This is your job, you know?  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: This is how you saw yourself.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: So, you’re gonna come in here and, you don’t have to answer this, but, you know, do what? You know?  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And Eryn, what are you gonna do differently? And Viv, what are you gonna do? And, and Mary Jo. Um, ’cause I think sometimes we just, yeah, we need to grieve, and let’s not- 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …rush past that.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And then what?  

Mary Jo Clark: I think something that I keep hearing from when Eryn’s sharing is just this self-awareness too that I think comes with time and from, she was talking about community hurt.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Moving on with community, and then having a self-awareness from what has previously happened, and being able to use that-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …for future experiences. And that being said, I think of the way I need to use that is by communicating what I need from my friends-  

Elisa Morgan: Uh-huh. 

Mary Jo Clark: or from people that I really wanna be friends with. I get friend crushes all the time, where I just see someone and I’m like, “I want to know them better.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: I love that.  

Mary Jo Clark: My friend Veronica right now, who has been patient with me and-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: …persevered through some of my struggles, one of my struggles is scheduling. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: I love a plan.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: But right now when I’m scheduling, I’m thinking of, “Okay, how can I hang out with this friend? I have to think of their schedule. I need to think of my schedule. I have to think of my husband’s schedule because I have to think of my children’s schedule.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: “But does that mess up with work schedule?” You know?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: So, like, my brain – struggles with that. And she has asked me, “How can I help you with that?”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Aw.  

Mary Jo Clark: And so for me-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s so sweet. 

Mary Jo Clark: …that’s the friend I wanna be, because that showed how much she values me. She values me enough to look past my anxiety and my struggles, and to wanna spend time with me. That’s what I wanna do for others.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: So when I think of moving forward-  

Elisa Morgan: Okay.  

Mary Jo Clark: …self-awareness for some of my own struggles. How can I reach out to Jade to know what she needs? Like, you guys. Jade and I still work together.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: We have, still have built-in ease. So with you guys, like, I want intentionality. I wanna reach out and say, “Hey, I love you and I miss you.” “How are you doing?” And I think we, we get so wrapped up in this fear of not being cool.  

Mary Jo Clark: And like, you know, in first grade, you were like, “Will you be my friend?” You know? Like, I want- That’s so- I think we need to bring that back-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: and just, like-  

Elisa Morgan: Vulnerability.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. Be vulnerable and let someone know.  

Elisa Morgan: And go first.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah, go first.  

Elisa Morgan: And make it awkward.  

Mary Jo Clark: And, if they don’t-  

Elisa Morgan: Allow it to be awkward. 

Mary Jo Clark: …if they don’t reciprocate, that’s okay.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: It’s not your identity. 

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s true.  

Mary Jo Clark: You can, you can have other community and, but, like, you can take that first step in intentionality, so. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, that’s so good. 

Vivian Mabuni: You know, I think about, um, memorial services. And the purpose of that memorial service is not for the person that’s passed.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: It’s for all the people that remain.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: And I think there’s something really healthy. I, my husband and I had to leave a ministry situation that we were removed from. It was not-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni:  …because we were ready to leave. It was a very abrupt, uncomfortable thing. And we ended up taking a walk around the campus that we were a part of, and going to all the places we used to meet with students, where we had weekly meetings-  

Mary Jo Clark: Oh, wow. 

Elisa Morgan: That’s good.  

Vivian Mabuni: …and just kinda took that walk. Kinda like you guys have been going-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …to all the restaurants, right?  

Elisa Morgan: Saying goodbye. 

 Elisa Morgan: Yeah, we go to all the restaurants. And Target, and Nordstroms, and whatever we need to do. The Rack. Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: But we ended, uh, we ended at the, uh, fountain in the middle of the campus. And I actually ha- wrote a eulogy- 

Elisa Morgan: Oh, that’s good.  

Vivian Mabuni: …to all of the hopes and prayers-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh, I love that …  

Vivian Mabuni: …that we had had for that place.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s beautiful. 

Vivian Mabuni: What we blessed the place for for the future-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …for ministry. And I think that that’s a really good practice. But it was… And we left flowers-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …at that fountain.  

Mary Jo Clark: Aw. That’s beautiful.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That is beautiful. 

Vivian Mabuni: And that physical decision really helped us to be able to move to the next.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: I think had we not had that closure, ’cause ideally there’s space-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …and time for-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …goodbyes and meals and appreciation-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …and all those things. Sometimes that’s not even possible, but-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …we created that for ourselves because we knew that we needed too. 

Elisa Morgan: And I’m hearing a lot of gratitude-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah, and that-  

Elisa Morgan: An intentional… ‘Cause it was a total-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You needed a physical-  

Vivian Mabuni: …to reflect.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah, something physical. Something to reflect.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Something, a place to grieve-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …you know?  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yep.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Because you know we were heartbroken. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: We were anticipating decades to serve-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Yep. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …in this particular place and space.  

Jade Gustman: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: And that was one of the things we’ve actually since then encouraged people who’ve also been in a season-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I love that. 

Elisa Morgan: Beautiful. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …of transition- 

 Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …to be able to do, and it was so good for our s- for our souls. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s such a good practical-  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: …practice. Practical practice.  

Elisa Morgan: Sure. 

Jade Gustman: Well, and Elisa said gratitude, and something that kind of-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …reframed my brain and how I was thinking through things was, like, being sad about the podcast ending or other things ending, and someone said to me, “Be grateful for all you were able to do.” 

Vivian Mabuni: Hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And at first, it’s kinda like, “Ugh, excuse you.” “Like, not the time.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Not the time.  

Jade Gustman: But then it hit me differently, like, no, you’re right. There is a lot of memories.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: You met new people.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: It was a new phase of your life, and I mean, we go through seasons.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Like, we are always gonna have change. That’s the one thing you can count on in life is that things are gonna change.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: And so, I do think it’s really beautiful, too, to just sit and be grateful for what you had after the grief and just reflect on that, and then also being able to send it away-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …and move on to the next. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. That’s good.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: How would you guys encourage a woman that’s listening that is struggling with finding community?  

Vivian Mabuni: Hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Some of the things, um, that I’ve tried haven’t worked.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And other things have, um, a- and we’ve kinda hit on them.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: I think about a choice to become friendable ourselves. And to me, that means being human.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Being a little needy.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: Not, not too needy, but-  

Vivian Mabuni: Vulnerable.  

Elisa Morgan: …b- being-  

Mary Jo Clark: A little.  

Elisa Morgan: …being a little needy.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And, um, and going first. And enduring the awkwardness of the first invitations, and sticking with it and persevering and trying again-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: and risking. I’ll, I’ll never forget this one moment. I’m gonna actually say, it was Mandy Arioto from, from MOPS, and sh- um, The Mom Co. So I had been the CEO there, and she was now the CEO there, and it, it, we’d had a gap in between. It wasn’t like the next day she became the CEO, so there was a gap of years. But I wanted to get to know her. And appropriately. I didn’t wanna like, “Hello”-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: …you know, “I’m your new best friend.” I didn’t wanna do that to her, but I invited her for lunch. And so, she came to my house. And I made tomato soup.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And I wanted to be kinda fancy. So I put some Parmesan cheese on the table, and you know little napkins and stuff. And so we dumped the Parmesan cheese into our soup. And pretty soon we are just laughing because this Parmesan cheese … has become all stringy and it’s going everywhere.  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s awesome.  

Elisa Morgan: And it, and it snapped back at her face and snap onto my shirt, and we just died laughing.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I love it. 

Elisa Morgan: And it was the best icebreaker-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

 Elisa Morgan: …ever. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, so, you know-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s sweet. 

 Elisa Morgan: …to make a friend-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …which, oh, it’s so risky.  

Mary Jo Clark: So hard.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And when you’ve been hurt or it’s-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …but to make a friend, we have to be friendable.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, we have to go first.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: We have to try the things. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: So that’s what I’d say.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Well, and to tag onto that I think establishing what your expectations of what community looks like for you, and if it’s a realistic or unrealistic expectation, too.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: So, to tag to that, you made this beautiful presentation, and it ended up being a messy situation. 

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. Kinda like me most of the time. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I think that that’s just it. It may not look like or start off like you expect it to become.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You know?  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And it may just take one person that then introduces you to another person. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: It may not be all of a sudden you are, you walk into a room of God had handpicked-  

Vivian Mabuni: Right. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …five of these people for you-  

Elisa Morgan: That is so good. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That understand your wiring. Yeah. But it’s that you have open hands and you are friendable-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …like you said.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I keep coming, coming back to this thought. You said something earlier, Mary Jo, that I think you can, within community, you can, uh, un- have an understanding, but you don’t have to agree. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I think sometimes we so badly want-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …all of our friends to all agree with us, too.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Which then just squishes the opportunity to have-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: …a really beautiful multi-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: layered, complex community.  

Mary Jo Clark: Or growth as, uh, your own person, too.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Absolutely. 

Mary Jo Clark: Like, to just have people that agree with you all the time, you’re not gonna grow either. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Right.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: So, the expectation, p- you may not agree with-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …with everything. 

 Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: But you can understand. And if you can understand, they will reciprocate that-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …too, to ha-  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …that’s the culture if you wanna breed that.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Um, they may not un- may not agree with everything you do. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Well, I think that this generation, this younger generation-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …is so accustomed to texting.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Like The same two kids that are in the same dorm room are texting each other, “Hey, should we go down to eat?” I’m like, “Really? You can’t turn around? It’s a tiny room.  

Mary Jo Clark: The same room.  

Vivian Mabuni: But- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: It’s a tiny room. 

Vivian Mabuni: you know, just-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: but the idea of, like, face-to-face conversation, it’s almost a lost art.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, I think it would be wise for the listener, and for us, and for myself really-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …is that there’s a pacing that comes because sometimes we’re so desperate for community- 

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …that we start to disclose things way too soon-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yes. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: About-  

Elisa Morgan: Ooh. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …what hasn’t been tested yet to be-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Vivian Mabuni: …trustworthy.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, I think that there’s a caution too in our, in our deep desire, ’cause we are hardwired-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …to be in community.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That is- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …without question how God made us to be.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: But when we go for a period, if we’ve moved, if we’ve-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …you know, been in a hurtful situation-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni:  ..and we’re kind of entering back in, that that gap that’s been left from not having community-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Vivian Mabuni: …we can actually bulldoze-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …inappropriately-  

Jade Gustman: Right.  

Vivian Mabuni: …is what I would say. And I mean-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: …that happens in dating situations.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: It’s so true. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yes. 

Vivian Mabuni: But I think with friends as well, like, we so long to be known and seen-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …and understood. So, you know, without hyper-spiritualizing, I really think this is an area to bring to the Lord.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Elisa Morgan: I do too.  

Vivian Mabuni: You know?  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: To pray and-  

Elisa Morgan: I like the illustration of, like, a building with an elevator, and in relationships you choose which button you’re gonna get off. 

Mary Jo Clark: Ooh.  

Elisa Morgan: You know? I’m gonna go to floor, you know, basement level or-  

Jade Gutsman: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: …I’m gonna go to the penthouse, you know.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: How about somewhere in between there?  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Like at our church, you know, our pastor will say, “There’s a card in the pew. We want to know as much about you as you want to share with us.”  

Mary Jo Clark: Oh, wow.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, so there’s this kind of, um, yeah, understanding-  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: …almost a bargaining of I’m gonna take three steps forward, and if, if nothing happens, I might take one step back.  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: But we get to choose the level of intimacy.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And with the Spirit’s guidance.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And, and with prayer, I think something that’s helped me a lot over the years is Elisa’s book, The Prayer Coin, which I think was changed to the name, um, When You Pray Like Jesus.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And when we talk about isolation and how I felt very… I felt isolated. We’ll just stick with that word. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Maybe internally, lonely?  

Mary Jo Clark: Because I, like, I was here, and I had such support from people.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: So, I didn’t feel- lonely. I felt isolated.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Because no one was in my life stage.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And I remember, I- Jade has always taken my, um, information very kindly and graciously because to have a friend that you can talk to about your struggles of not having friends in that space-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: …I know I can bring anything to her. 

 Vivian Mabuni: Sure. 

Mary Jo Clark: Because we’ve also talked about expectations.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Exactly what you guys are saying.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, but I won’t offend her by saying, “I’m praying to have a friend in this life stage so that-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …I can have someone that I can talk to about this.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Because I have a lot of mom friends.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: I don’t have a lot of working mom friends.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And it’s another level of isolation.  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure. 

 Eryn Eddy Adking: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: And I remember just asking God for so long to just bring a working mom friend into my life- 

 Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: …so that I could have someone else that I could talk to about what I’m experiencing. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And then I realized at some point, I flipped the coin.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: I said, “But Lord, if that’s not who I’m supposed to have in my life, I just pray that you send me somebody that can speak truth into the experience.”  

Elisa Morgan: That’s so good.  

Vivian Mabuni: Wow, that’s good. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s good. 

Mary Jo Clark: I, I have a lot of… I do have a work friend here, BTdubs. I, I don’t wanna belittle this person because we have that friendship, but we’re both-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …in the same boat, so there’s not a lot of time for each other.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I understand.  

Mary Jo Clark: But I have so many women that are not in my stage anymore but have experienced this stage.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Even when I was asking for less hours at the office and demoting myself, I called each one of you. And I spent time talking, like Elisa helped me so much because I was asking her her experience as a mom and, like working-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …not working. And that sort of thing, even though it’s been a f- a f- a couple years.  

Elisa Morgan: A couple years.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Just two or three years. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. Having just kindness and love. And I hadn’t, I don’t think I’d done that with you before.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: It was producer-host relationship-  

Elisa Morgan: Yep  

Mary Jo Clark: …friends.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: But I hadn’t crossed that line into, like that vulnerable. And so, I think that the praying aspect is just something that I’ve been thinking a l- a lot of. 

Elisa Morgan: That’s so good. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: ‘Cause it, it might not look like how I thought it was gonna look.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Mary Jo Clark: But just, it’s God’s timing.  

Elisa Morgan: On that point, you know, some of our best friendships are gonna be the unexpected ones. 

 Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, I… When I was in college, I was working in a medical office, and I was filing back in the day. Like paper charts, you know? And it was just me. I was like, I don’t know, 19 or whatever. And the only other person I had to talk to was a woman named Arhalia.  

Jade Gustman: Ooh.  

Elisa Morgan: Okay, and Arhalia and I would have lunch every day, and I’d bring my tuna fish sandwich and my Diet Coke, and she’d bring her tortillas and her tea. 

Elisa Morgan: And she was probably 62, and I was 19. Wow. And she spoke Spanish. And I tried to, and she was Catholic, and I was Protestant, and we talked.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And I am so grateful for Arhalia. I mean, I think about her today.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: So I was, like looking for somebody look like me.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: We do that. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Right.  

Elisa Morgan: And God surprised me with somebody who taught me so much.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And you came in with questions. 

 Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You were willing to have questions with someone.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: That neediness.  

Mary Jo Clark: The vulnerability. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: The right amount of neediness. Hopefully it was the right amount.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Sorry.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. But isn’t that what- 

Mary Jo Clark: But an open willingness to also, like receive-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: like-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …ask for help.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: But isn’t that what we’ve witnessed in all of these episodes is-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: …it’s just, it just takes a certain question-  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …to unlock-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …a depth that we did not know somebody had in them. 

Vivian Mabuni: That’s right. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s so true.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That they may, that they may never have accessed before.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And we’ve witnessed that time and time again in-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …in 230 plus.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. Conversations.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: We’re having these two lines of, like- vulnerability, but I think also communicating your needs.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Like Mary Jo saying-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Elisa, can I have your advice about this?” And I’m thinking about-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

 Jade Gustman: …when I lived with my best friend, like my childhood best friend. We’ve always been best friends, and we lived together all through college.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And we got this apartment together towards, like, our last year of college, and I remember we both thought we’re gonna live together, like, probably until our 30s. Like, we’re gonna, we’ll be together forever. You know, that kinda thing.  

Elisa Morgan: Old ladies.  

Jade Gustman: Old ladies. Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Love it.  

Mary Jo Clark: Old ladies hanging out.  

Jade Gustman: And we were sitting at our desk in front of the window in our apartment, and I was dating this guy who’s now my husband. And I remember him and I were talking about getting engaged. And I just thought, “I can’t leave my best friend, Lily.” Like, we had planned on living in this apartment together-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh. 

Jade Gustman:  …for a really long time, and so I was really wrestling with, I don’t know, do I accept this engagement or do I keep living with my best friend? Which seems silly. 

Mary Jo Clark: No. 

Elisa Morgan: You can’t do both. 

Jade Gustman: But I’m like, what do I do?  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: And I didn’t know this, but at the same time she– we lived in Grand Rapids together, and she wanted to go back to our hometown and be a teacher. And we were graduating, and so it was, like, those next transitional steps.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Aw.  

Jade Gustman: And I remember I was, like, telling her something about my boyfriend, Tyler, at the time, and she looked at me and she was like, “Jade-” “Do you wanna marry him?” And I was, like, so scared to tell her because-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman:  …it felt like I was the one that was-  

Mary Jo Clark: Betrayal.  

Jade Gustman: …breaking our friendship.  

Vivian Mabuni: Right.  

Jade Gustman: And I said, “Yeah, I do.”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh.  

Jade Gustman: And she was like, “I wanna move back to our hometown.” And we just sat there, and it was, like both of us-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh. 

Jade Gustman: … had been holding onto this, like- 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh, that’s so sweet 

Jade Gustman: “We’re gonna break apart the friendship,” but, and I mean- 

Vivian Mabuni: Oh.  

Jade Gustman: …she’s still my best friend.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Awww. 

Jade Gustman: So, it’s, like, that we didn’t lose that. 

Jade Gustman: It just looks different.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: And we’ve had to be intentional, like we’ve also- 

 Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

 Jade Gustman: …talked about. And it just, your friendship also changes, I think-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …and your community transitions, but it does when you’re vulnerable-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …and when you just share what you need-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …and communicate what you need.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, that’s good.  

Elisa Morgan: So good.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Aw.  

Elisa Morgan: And sometimes you have lower expectations, too. You know-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …’cause, like, I remember one therapist shared with me, “Elisa, everybody can’t be your deep, deep friend,” you know?  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And sometimes you’re gonna have-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: some kinda-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: …drought periods, and he actually used the example of-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …you know, intimacy is like islands. You know, you-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm  

Elisa Morgan: …you draw up to one island, and you, you know, unpack and stay there for a while, and then you get back in your boat, and you sail off to another island where you enjoy a different level of friendship. And anyway, it- we can’t-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s good.  

Elisa Morgan: …we expect them to be too much or-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: …everything-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm  

Elisa Morgan: …sometimes, so.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: That’s so true. Which, like, going into that, then just remembering, too, like, I think about when Eryn had her time of dating Jesus. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: You know, like-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: Like, God is our-  

Elisa Morgan: It’s a good example 

Mary Jo Clark: …community.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And so, like-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: …I know we can all feel so alone and- 

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

 Mary Jo Clark: …and desperate for people, but, like, we can go to God first.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: We can, we can hang out with him, read his word-  

Jade Gustman: Yep.  

Mary Jo Clark: …pray.  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Again, not to over-spiritualize it, but, like, that is so important to know-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah 

 Mary Jo Clark: …like, you aren’t alone. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Even if right now it feels like the drought from people, God isn’t, hasn’t left you.  

Vivian Mabuni: Um, I think it’s John Townsend or Henry Cloud that talks about, like, there’s a God-shaped vacuum that only God can fill.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: There’s a people-shaped vacuum that only people can fill, and we mess up when we try to-  

Mary Jo Clark: Oh, yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …fill the God-shaped vacuum with people-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …or the people-shaped vacuum with God.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yep.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s so good.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, I think in the same way, there can be this, “Oh, it’s just me and Jesus.”  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: Yep.  

Vivian Mabuni: “I’m fine.”  

Elisa Morgan: Good, yep.  

Vivian Mabuni: And we need-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah, we need people.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Vivian Mabuni: We need people.  

Elisa Morgan: We do. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: And we need God. 

Elisa Morgan: And God wants us to have people.  

Vivian Mabuni: Oh, yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: He put us with people.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yes. 

Elisa Morgan: It’s not good for us to be alone.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yep.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, He put us in partnership-  

Vivian Mabuni: That’s right. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. Well, and going off of God as a provider, I mean, we’ve seen His provision with this podcast for so many years.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: But now that it’s coming to an end, I’m just curious about, what do you think that God has in store for each of you next? 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Hmm. Well- the podcast has definitely witnessed so many changes in my life. Y’all have been a part of so much-  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …change.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And for the last 17 years, I’ve lived in, like, a temporary living situation. Apartments, renting homes, never really being stationed anywhere.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And so, this last year has been just a season that I’ve vent- or, or I guess a new book really- um, that I’ve entered into where I’m rooted.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I’m stationed, and I have no plans to pack. Oh, gosh.  

Jade Gustman: Amen. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I’m a packing pro, 17 years.  

Vivian Mabuni: Wow. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: But what’s been really cool in all of those moves with blending and being single and then getting married and houses and, or apartments and all of that, I have had my community help show up and pack. Unpack, hang curtains, take curtains down. I’ve had the same people-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …come and show up, and I’m shocked-  

Jade Gustman: Aw.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …that it’s been the same people ’cause you know when you ask that, that favor?  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: You’re like-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. Again. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I don’t know if I can ask it again.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And I would just say, “We’re moving again,” you know, and they’d show up and come and help. Um, but what’s been really, really sweet, is that now that we’re rooted, we, we live on 16 acres and we have space to host and house friends and community that need a space of rest.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And so I feel like this next season I’m entering into a different definition of what rooted looks like for me. Cause I feel like I’ve always was rooted in my faith or rooted in, you know, other ways, but- 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …to be physically stationed-  

Vivian Mabuni: Yes, yes.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …and committed to a home is such a gift. Um, but what’s cool is that we’re able to now bless our community-  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: …with a place of rest. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: And that’s what I look forward to then in this next future, and I know that’s not about my career, but that’s the thing that I’m so excited about because of the amount of years that I have spent wondering when that would come.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. How about you, Elisa?  

Elisa Morgan: You know, I, I’ve been surprised at what God’s done over and over in my life.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: The things He’s invited me into always has, every time have surprised me. So, God Hears Her has surprised me. Discover the Word surprised me, Our Daily Bread Ministries, MOPS International, et cetera, surprise.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: So yeah, I’m a little surprised this is ending, so there’s that too.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: But y- in the last several years, um, I’ve been very intentional about looking at the last part of my life which seems so… It, until you’re there you don’t get it and then when you’re there- 

 Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: …you don’t wanna get it but anyway.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: You’re, you’re there. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And what I’m really focusing in on is what I’d call presence.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: Um, I, about eight years ago I started looking at what’s the purpose-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Elisa Morgan: …of the last part of life if you’re blessed enough to live long?  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: ‘Cause some people aren’t. What are we supposed to do?  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: And you know, I’m, I’m a three on the Enneagram. You know, I like to produce things and as I prayed about it and took some courses on it and, uh, visited with other experts on it, I discovered there were two things. One is to grow character- 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: ….Fruit of the Spirit.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: A life that matters, which is more intangible.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

 Elisa Morgan: And the other is to bless and raise up the next generations. All of them.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: So if I keep those as my road signs, you know, and sorry, and what I’m gonna do with life-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm …  

Elisa Morgan: then they direct me. And usually it means just sitting down in that space-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: …where I am, and maybe it’s you calling me, MJ. 

Mary Jo Clark: I will.  

Elisa Morgan: You know? Or maybe it’s Viv and I working on a board together.  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure.  

Elisa Morgan: Or maybe it’s Eryn and I talking about the steps, you know, the bonus kids or whatever. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Just to be there.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: It, it’s a, it’s a little bit of a smaller life, but it’s a wherever you are life. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: And there’s a great freedom, and I’m gonna say confidence that comes in understanding purpose-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: …and living into it every minute, no matter what it is. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: So I feel kinda free. 

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

 Elisa Morgan: I don’t have a whole lot of specific goals.  

Mary Jo Clark: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: I just wanna be present where I get planted.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s a good goal.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: It is. 

Elisa Morgan: And you, Viv?  

Vivian Mabuni: Gosh, I… Well, the adventure-  

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: …of walking with Jesus is full of twists and turns- 

Elisa Morgan: That’s good. 

Vivian Mabuni: …things that we did not plan for-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …and things that are good, and things that are hard.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: But I’m, I’ve gone around the block a few times to know that really there’s something very beautiful about being available for invitations. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: And I am convinced it’s who you’re with more than what you do.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, I’m-  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good 

Vivian Mabuni:  …really, um, am in a, in a listening season right now. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

 Elisa Morgan: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: Uh, but feel very peaceful that I don’t have to hustle and figure it out.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: I really sense that there’s, there actually has been such a joy to respond to things that you weren’t even looking for. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: And I felt like this, this whole God Hears Her–  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …a beautiful place of ministry was an invitation that-  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: You know, I came on as a guest, you guys. Two times.  

Elisa Morgan: Two times.  

Mary Jo Clark: Two times.  

Elis Morgan: And she stayed. Yep. 

Vivian Mabuni: And you liked me, and you invited me.  

Jade Gustman: Yes.  

Vivian Mabuni: But I mean, it was a very easy yes-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …because of getting to work with the people that are so amazing. So-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: … I think in that way, when I think about the future, it really has more to do with who I would be ministering alongside. Um, I feel confident that the things that were gained-  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good.  

Vivian Mabuni: …through this experience-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah  

Vivian Mabuni: …will be useful for the next. And-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: …um, and there’s just a, a, I think love is not a zero-sum game. 

Elisa Morgan: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: So, there’s a lot of love to still be shared and experienced.  

Jade Gustman: Mm-hmm.  

Vivian Mabuni: And you know, there’s just a carrying-  

Elisa Morgan: Mmmm. 

Vivian Mabuni: …us in this beautiful memory in this beautiful experience that will never go away.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: You know? So I’m grateful. I feel overwhelmingly grateful-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Vivian Mabuni: …and sad.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: But more grateful than sad. 

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: So, and I’m pretty sad, so I was… I’m really grateful.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: I think that there’s something really… Well, I’ll say it this way – My boss asked me this question recently, and he knows it’s my least favorite question. And he said, “Where do you see yourself in five years?”  

Mary Jo Clark: And I said, “I hate that question.” And he said, “Fine. Where do you want to be in five years?” And I said, “That’s worse.” I’m not an achiever. I don’t specifically have these big goals I want. And what I’ve had to do, um, to be okay then in, in having goals is just shift my thinking to know that what I wanna do in five years is-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah  

Mary Jo Clark: …to love God and love others.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, and that I think will help me with my community. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, I want to be present. Um, I’m not in the same season of life as Elisa, but I have such a hard time living in the moment.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Mary Jo Clark: ‘Cause I’m, I’m anxious. I’m just afraid of the unknown, so I focus more on the unknown.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: I just wanna live in the moment.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: I don’t like change. 

Vivian Mabuni: That’s good.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s good.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: And my whole job is changing.  

Vivian Mabuni: Sure.  

Mary Jo Clark: So I… And I don’t know what it’ll look like.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: It’s unknown, and so I just wanna enjoy today. I wanna enjoy right now. I wanna be present at the office, and I wanna be present at home.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: I wanna give… I wanna be a good mom to my babies. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Um, it doesn’t matter where I am.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: It doesn’t matter what I’m doing.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: I just wanna love God, love others. I wanna point back to God. I wanna, I wanna proclaim Jesus. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

 Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Mary Jo Clark: Share Him with my friends. I wanna do that as a mom.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: I wanna do it as a worker. I wanna do it as a community member. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Mary Jo Clark: And, um, I just want Jesus to lead me through that. So that’s where I wanna be after God Hears Her.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: What about you?  

Jade Gustman: Yeah. Well, I did mention it, but I feel like spiritually, the Lord has really been stripping away a lot of things that I find security in. Like, I’m definitely in a season where, like I will say I know that my security and my identity is in Christ, but deep down I don’t think I actually feel that. 

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And I’m very much a control freak, so I’m like, I like to have all- all of it in my hand and Jesus in the passenger seat kind of vibe. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm. 

Jade Gustman: Um, but I really think, like there has been a lot of tough things recently, and I truly think that the Lord is just stripping it all away- 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Jade Gustman: …and getting back to down deep of just my relationship with Him. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: Because I think He’s telling me, “I know that you think you find your security in me. I know that you think you have your identity in me. Well, you do, but you’re not believing that.” 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

 Jade Gustman: Like, you don’t actually live that out. 

 Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: And so there’s been so many moments where I’ve felt betrayed or something has ended, and I just realize-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: …that’s another thing that I trusted in more than the Lord.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: So I am in a very deep wrestling phase-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I love it. 

 Jade Gustman: …I would say.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: And like- 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: It’s hard but beautiful.  

Jade Gustman: …going back to square one. Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: And then professionally, I’ll be stepping into a new big project, and I have no idea what that looks like. I’m very excited, but I’m also extremely passionate about creating content for women. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Jade Gustman: So, I’m going to be really annoying in those meetings and continue to say-  

Elisa Morgan: Yay. 

Jade Gustman: What about women listening?” “What are women’s stories that we can bring in?”  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Because I do think oftentimes-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Oh, I love it. 

Jade Gustman: …it’s overshadowed or we have blinders about it. 

Vivian Mabuni: Sure.  

Jade Gustman: But diversity is important. And hearing from both men and women is important. And so, I’m always gonna show up that way. The Lord has put that passion in me, and it’s not going away just because the podcast is ending.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: So, I’m excited to see what’s next. I know, I know with full certainty, like you were saying, Viv and Elisa, that the Lord just has future plans. 

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: Like, He knows it all.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Jade Gustman: I hate the question, “where do you see yourself in five years” too because I had a whole plan, and-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: …it doesn’t, life doesn’t go the way that we plan.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: No, it doesn’t. Mm-mm. 

Jade Gustman: So, I’m very open-handed and excited to see what happens next.  

Jade Gustman: And that’s a wrap. On the God Hears Her podcast. 

Vivian Mabuni: Wow. 

Elisa Morgan: It’s been good. And I think, um Let’s really lean into those three words.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, that’s the point. Uh, we messed around with them and-  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Which, which words?  

Elisa Morgan: God Hears Her.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Okay, I didn’t know if it- Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: That’s a wrap.  

Mary Jo Clark: That’s a wrap.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I thought it was, ‘that’s a wrap’.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s a wrap.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s why I waswas like, “Wait, just to, just to find that real quick.” 

Elisa Morgan: Really good. Okay. 

Mary Jo Clark: Let’s hone in. Let’s hone in. 

Elisa Morgan: But you know, that’s, those are the words that we inherited as a title for this. And, um, they’re the words we say in our wraps literally.  

Jade Gustman: Yeah.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm.  

Elisa Morgan: You know, He sees us, He hears us, He loves us because we are His.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: You know? So that’s what we need to lean into. 

Vivian Mabuni: Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Morgan: That’s not changing-  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah  

Elisa Morgan: …just because the podcast is ending.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: That is true.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah. 

Elisa Morgan: That truth is God hears us.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Mary Jo Clark: Yeah.  

Vivian Mabuni: Yeah.  

Jade Gustman: Okay.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s a wrap.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: That’s a wrap.  

Jade Gustman: That’s a wrap.  

Elisa Morgan: That’s a wrap.  

Eryn Eddy Adkins: I know when you were like, “Those three words.” And then after that three words, I was like, “Wait, just to find the real quick.” 

Elisa Morgan: Okay.  

Mary Jo Clark: Can we stand up and hug? 

Jade Gustman: Yeah. 

 Vivian Mabuni: Of course. 

Eryn Eddy Adkins: Yeah.  

Elisa Morgan: That was really good.  

[Music] Praise God from whom all blessings flow. Praise Him all creatures here below. Praise Him above y’e heavenly host. Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.  

Jade Gustman: Thank you so much for being part of our God Hears Her podcast finale. If you missed anything, be sure to check out our show notes for quotes, links, and more. 

Mary Jo Clark: Today, we want to thank our hosts for all of their work on the show over the years. Thank you, Elisa, Eryn, and Vivian.  

Jade Gustman: And thank you, Mary Jo, for all of your producing and editing over the years. Thank you to Anne Stevens, Kevin Burgess, and Ryan Clevenger for their audio editing and recording skills.  

Mary Jo Clark: And thank you, Jade, for all of your years of leadership for this podcast. Thank you to our director of photography, Tori Nickens, and our camera ops, Ellie Hardy, Matt Arnett, and Ryan Kornstadt. Thank you to Matt Huizinga for slate and all of your help on the day. 

Jade Gustman: We also want to take a moment to thank the people that came before this team. Thank you to Daniel Ryan Day, Gabrielle Boward, and everyone else who developed and worked on the early stages of this podcast. We wouldn’t have been able to do it without all of you.   

Mary Jo Clark: And thank you again for listening to our show for all of these years. Remember that you can always revisit our episodes on the God Hears Her website, YouTube, Spotify, or Apple Podcasts.  

Jade Gustman: Always remember, friends, that you are seen, heard, and loved by our God.  

Elisa Morgan: God Hears Her is a production of Our Daily Bread Ministries.